New Comp

[Jeffrey]

Hey everybody,

I'm planning to buy a new computer for 3D. Want to get the AMD Opteron. Can anyone tell me what is the best combination? like what sort of motherboard, ram and video card I should get? I can figure out the price myself just need the spec. THanks. THe price I can afford is between USD1500-2000. Cheers;)

[Jeffrey]

Oyah, I'm using 3dsmax and Vray. If that's help

[AJLynn]

In the current market I'd actually recommend a cheaper Core 2 Duo with a good MB, RAM, HSF and PSU, and overclock the hell out of it. I did that with an E6400 at 2.8GHz and it's very stable and as fast as Opteron configs costing much more.

 

Unless of course this is for a company and you can't do that. In that case, in that price range, you could go with dual/dual Opterons (you won't be able to afford the fastest ones, but who can) with 2-4GB RAM and a good Geforce card.

[Jeffrey]

In the current market I'd actually recommend a cheaper Core 2 Duo with a good MB, RAM, HSF and PSU, and overclock the hell out of it. I did that with an E6400 at 2.8GHz and it's very stable and as fast as Opteron configs costing much more.

 

Unless of course this is for a company and you can't do that. In that case, in that price range, you could go with dual/dual Opterons (you won't be able to afford the fastest ones, but who can) with 2-4GB RAM and a good Geforce card.

 

Yeah, this is a company comp. And what MB is good for running dual/dual Opteron? one more thing, dual/dual opteron running with 2 or 4 processor? Cheers:D

[tecton3d]

 

Yeah, this is a company comp. And what MB is good for running dual/dual Opteron? one more thing, dual/dual opteron running with 2 or 4 processor? Cheers:D

 

Tyan K8WE (S295) is a great board but won't let you upgrade to socket F (quadcore) parts when they come out. The Tyan Thunder n6650W (S2915) looks like the nextgen K8WE with dual PCIe x16 slots and a host of other nice features that will get you to socket F and quadcore Opterons, or the dualcore socket F's available now

 

A dual processor system with each processor being dualcore = a "quadcore" system which is still only 2 physical processors but each proc has 2x the processing power... follow? To oversimplify things, you can compare a quadcore system to 4 single processor systems without the headache of having all the extra parts (hd's psu's ram... etc) and space being occupied by the 4 systems.

[Jeffrey]

Tyan K8WE (S295) is a great board but won't let you upgrade to socket F (quadcore) parts when they come out. The Tyan Thunder n6650W (S2915) looks like the nextgen K8WE with dual PCIe x16 slots and a host of other nice features that will get you to socket F and quadcore Opterons, or the dualcore socket F's available now

 

THanks for the useful tips. Apparently n6650W is way out of our budget. How long do you think the K8WE can last in rendering world:D ? Cheers

[tecton3d]

THanks for the useful tips. Apparently n6650W is way out of our budget. How long do you think the K8WE can last in rendering world:D ? Cheers

 

it will last for quite a while as the AMD socket 940 design was good for it's time but it's the fact that you are limited with only dualcore - dual processor, makes it a little unappealing considering the current offerings from both AMD (socket F) and Intel (Woodcrest) provide quadcore upgradeability.

 

Honestly, if you were to go with a 940 setup, you'd have to get processors faster than the 270's to render faster than an Intel Core2 system that is overclocked but costs half as much. Buying a new 940 system at this time does not make sense since AMD has not dropped the price of the socket 940 processors... you're paying out the nose for end-of-the-road technology that's slower than what is available for less and is not a dead-end.

 

AJLynn is absolutely right when he says to buy an Intel Core2 system and overclock it... not only would it be faster than most dual opteron systems, with the budget for a new 940 system ~ you could build two Core 2 systems:D

[AJLynn]

Consider:

 

From Newegg, one AMD 940 Opteron 280 costs $710. It's the 2.4GHz version. That doesn't include the motherboard, RAM or the second Opteron.

 

$710 will buy you:

Core2 Duo Allendale E6400 (Newegg calls it a Conroe but I'm pretty sure it's not, technically, a Conroe, and I think Allendale's a cooler name anyway)

MSI 975X Platinum motherboard

OCZ Platinum 2GB (2x1GB) PC2-6400

Arctic Cool Freezer 7 Pro

Arctic Silver 5

And shipping for all that

 

The Opteron will pull a Cinebench multi-CPU rendering of about 1330, if you buy two of them and the hardware to run them on. I've been able to OC that set of Allendale hardware close to a 1000. Throw in hard drives, optical drives, cases, PSUs... yeah, probably about the same for the Opteron box as two Allendale boxes, and it's not clear right now but it seems the 975X boards for Core2 Duo will be able to use Core2 Quad.

[Jackal]

I'm considering building a new 3D workstation but I don't think I'll need all processing power of a "quad core" setup. I'm finishing up a dual Xeon system for video editing and could use that for 3D work too but I prefer to have a separate rig. After dealing with the problems of making my new system I've learned enough to do some reseach ahead of time for my next build. Mostly concerning noise and CPU mounting issues.

 

 

I wouldn't mind having a dual CPU rig for 3D, just 2 single core CPU's. The reason being is that I might (and that's a big, pricey might) build a small render farm consisting of Aopen Mini-PC's. I figure about 4 of them. And since they will only have CPU's of about 1.xxGHz I beleive that a lot of processing power would be lost from the main rig when networked together. The main rig, of course, will be for designing the 3D materials and most of the power that people are looking for is for rendering, right?

 

 

I'd like to think that having the 5 PC's (1 main, 4 nodes) would be a better rendering option than having 2 dual core CPU's. Everything is spread out and shared between the PC's. The only thing is cost. It would probably be about $2,000 or so the get the 4 Aopen PC's. But I haven't really made a direct comparison of the farm vs a Dual Core Duo system.

[tecton3d]

I'd like to think that having the 5 PC's (1 main, 4 nodes) would be a better rendering option than having 2 dual core CPU's. Everything is spread out and shared between the PC's. The only thing is cost. It would probably be about $2,000 or so the get the 4 Aopen PC's. But I haven't really made a direct comparison of the farm vs a Dual Core Duo system.

 

not to burst your bubble but your assumption is slightly off:p

 

It is logical to think that "distributing" the load across all those computers is a good thing... the more the merrier if the computers are of decent specs but, with computers that are so slow (the Aopen 1.xxghz) you're basically wasting electricity instead of actually getting anything out of your farm:eek:

 

you're already on the right track mentioning the 2 - core 2 duo systems... building 2 of them would cost more than $2000 but would be well worth it and would be much better. Plus you don't have to deal with those shoddy little Aopens eating up a rendering engine license and a "real" computer () can handle more RAM than those little guys. In your case, I'd build two E6400 systems and overclock them:D

 

cheers

[Jackal]

But...but it's a render farm! They're suppose to be a good thing...aren't they?

 

So you don't think it would be worth having a farm if the specs of each node is too low? What do you think a "good" minimum CPU spec should be if I was to still follow that path?

 

I have never overclocked a CPU before and have no idea how to. Stop laughing! So I would just build a dual CPU rig using single processors. I'm not to clear on all of that dual core, core duo, duo 2 stuff.

[AJLynn]

A dual core is as good as a dual cpu, assuming the spec for each core of the dual core is as good as each cpu of the dual CPU. E.G., a dual-core 2GHz Opteron with 2x1MB cache would be as fast as a dual-CPU, single-core-per-CPU 2GHz Opteron with 1MB cache per CPU.

 

Overclocking can be complicated, but it doesn't have to be, and the Core 2 Duo is the most easily overclocked chip I've ever seen. But even without OC'ing, an E6400 is faster than a dual Xeon 3.6GHz. One E6400. A consumer-level chip, second-to-the-bottom of the new line, costing $240 and working with under-$200 motherboards and 266MHz DDR2 DIMMs, and it's faster and more efficient, and much more energy efficient, than 2 of the proposed dual 1.xx CPU boxes, if those are 1.8GHz.

[tecton3d]

But...but it's a render farm! They're suppose to be a good thing...aren't they?

So you don't think it would be worth having a farm if the specs of each node is too low? What do you think a "good" minimum CPU spec should be if I was to still follow that path?

I have never overclocked a CPU before and have no idea how to. Stop laughing! So I would just build a dual CPU rig using single processors. I'm not to clear on all of that dual core, core duo, duo 2 stuff.

 

render farms are definitely a good thing!

 

it is absolutely not worth having a farm if the specs are too low and if you have an alternative (to the sum of $2000 or so:D)

 

processors:

single core: - one processing socket - one processing core

dual core: - single processing socket - two processing cores

 

core duo - first generation of Intel's "Core" architecture - single socket - dual core

core 2 Duo - second generation (and better) of Intel's "Core" architecture commonly refered to by name "Conroe" - single socket - dual core

 

you could build a workstation with two single core processors, but logistically and costwise that doesn't make sense given the current high prices of AMD's Opterons... also an Overclocked Core2 system would whip ANY dual socket, single core Opteron system ~ so you not only have a cheaper computer, you have a faster computer.

 

the minimum specs should reflect what you're trying to render and how you work. If you commonly work with and try to render huge files, your nodes will need to have RAM comparable (amount wise) to that of your workstation or you workflow pipeline is crushed.

 

decent Core 2 motherboard allowing up to 8gb's (64bit apps and OS's are on the way)

2 - 4gb high performance RAM

Intel E6400 cpu

fsp 600w power supply

cheap(ish) case

a HD enough to store programs and OS

[Jeffrey]

render farms are definitely a good thing!

 

it is absolutely not worth having a farm if the specs are too low and if you have an alternative (to the sum of $2000 or so:D)

 

decent Core 2 motherboard allowing up to 8gb's (64bit apps and OS's are on the way)

2 - 4gb high performance RAM

Intel E6400 cpu

fsp 600w power supply

cheap(ish) case

a HD enough to store programs and OS

 

Sweet. Thanks for all the helps, Tecton and AJLynn. Totally understand. I'll go for the E6400 then. I don't know much about overclocking too. Do you have any good website about overclocking? Wanna try it myself. One more question, can it last for few years(E6400)?

[AJLynn]

This seems to be the place to go:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/

 

My advice would be:

-Get a motherboard that you are reasonably confident in - read posts of people who hav overclocked, and see what their experiences are. I have an MSI 975X Platinum Revision 2.1 (which is the revision Newegg has) and it overclocks well, Greg Hess posted his experiences here with an Intel 975DBX "BadAxe" board, and a lot of people swear by the Asus P5B Deluxe.

-Get RAM that is compatible with your motherboard, and faster than it needs to be. This is because of the way the motherboard sets the CPU speed - it multiplies the RAM speed by a multiplier number, and in the case of the Core2 Duo chips the RAM speed defaults to 266 and the multiplier is locked at a different number for each model. In the case of the E6400, the multiplier must be 8. So to overclock it, you tell te motherboard to increase the RAM speed. The faster the RAM is spec'ed for, the easier it is to get it to perform at a high speed. I have 400MHz RAM (AKA PC2-6400), so it's very easy to run it at speeds in the 300-400MHz range. I can leave it at 350 and my CPU clock is 350x8=2800.

-You'll need a good power supply, probably more than 450W and the more amps at +12V it supplies, the better. You might have an older one that is good enough, but requires a 20-pin to 24-pin adapter to work with new motherboards (mine does that - it's a decent 480W model).

-You'll want a good aftermarket heat sink and fan. Greg and I both use the Arctic Freezer 7 Pro, but there are other models out there that work as well or better - this one was nice for me because it blows air sideways, drectly at my back of case fans. Use a good thermal compound with it, such as Arctic Silver. Scrape and clean off the pad of thermal material on the heatsink (the stuff they give you isn't as good as the good stuff) and apply a bit, then spread it thin with a piece of plastic. Usually between all your computer parts, one of them will have a suitable piece of plastic as part of the packaging

-Use a CPU temperature monitor when overclocking - get something like Cinebench onto your otherwise clean system, and with the speed at default run the multi-CPU rendering a few times in rapid succession while watching the CPU temp. Then start slow, take the RAM to 275 and Cinebench/Temp test it again, then go to maybe 290, 305, 320, 330, 340, 350, maybe 360. You shouldn't notice a problem, and if your systm runs like mine you shouldn't see the CPU temp go much above 50C.

-If at any point your system won't boot, or crashes for no good reason, try upping CPU and RAM voltage (but don't go above the spec voltage printed on the box unless you do research first) and set the RAM timings manually, start with that the manufacturer recommends and if it's not working you may have to increase the numbers by 1, but if you've got good RAM spec'ed higher than it needs to be you won't have this problem. High performance RAM might have a spec voltage of, say, 2.1V, but a lot of motherboards will default it to 1.8V, which is fine at 266MHz and gives you headroom to work with when you up the clock.

-After you get to a level of overclock you like, test your RAM stability by running Prime95 (search for that on this forum - Greg described the procedure to me).

-None of this will work on most systems from a major company like Dell and HP - they don't usually give you an interface to adjust speeds. You may void the warranty on some of your parts. If you're not running it hot (and with a good heat sink this isn't going to get too hot) the system will last you several years - it won't break before it becomes obsolete, which is the most you can expect.

[Greg Hess]

New note on the artic freezer 7 pro...I'm actually trying it with the included paste, and it seems to be doing quite well.

 

Probably not as well as if you cleaned everything off and used AS5, but good enough that those not wanting to deal with thermal paste issues could easily make due with just installing the HSF.

 

(building 3rd and 4th systems today...I'm like a friggin factory)

[AJLynn]

4 of these? That's like 1.21 gigawatts of renderfarm.

[scherten]

core2duo all the way!

just get a 6400 with 2gig of ram and wait for core2quadro

buy a core2quadro with 2gig of ram or more so you will have a workstation with 4 cores and a render node with 2 cores!

[Jackal]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll check into the E6400 and use that as a starting point. But my Mini-PC render farm would have so....beautiful!

[Jeffrey]

Great info, PROssss. THanks.. ..

[Greg Hess]

AJLynn,

 

1 E6700 @ 3.2, 2 x E6600's at 3.0. So 6 cores total available for analysis, with a minimum of 48 hours of dual prime95 stability confirmed. On the E6700, I actually ran the prime95's almost 120 hours (was over labor day weekend), to make sure it wasn't going to ever have any problems, even though its temp is elevated compared to the two E6600's (which run around 55C while priming).

 

If they need to add any more machines later, I'll probably just duplicate the E6600 systems, as they went together pretty quickly and without any issues. Btw, I forgot if you got the intel board or not, but they've realized another bios on 9/11 if you haven't seen it yet. Supposed to fix the hang up at code 5A while booting with a optical device attached. Haven't noticed any other differences yet (and no, it doesn't update the onboard raid controllers).

 

Oh and for future reference, avoid the xfx passively cooled Geforce 7's...damn gpu was at 75C idling!

[AJLynn]

"Passively cooled Geforce 7" sounds like asking for trouble. Thanks for the tip. I'm getting very good performance from my FireGL so I won't be switching any time soon.