So... Why 3DS Max?

[johnmon11]

This is something that's always bugged me about archvis. Why is 3DS Max the primary program used in this field? Was it something that just caught on at the right place and right time, or does it have features that endear it specifically to the archvis community?

 

Just curious... a Lightwave user.

[a_w]

Being able to link files between Max/VIZ and CAD, so that CAD revisions are automatically updated in Max/VIZ is the biggest draw for me. Its third-party renderers are also quite nice. However, I think from a studio/corporate standpoint, being able to get all the necessary software and training from one vendor (Autodesk) adds a lot of value and convenience.

 

I haven't used Lightwave much, but I do switch between Maya and 3DSMax quite a bit. Although I've seen great archViz created in Maya, I feel crippled by its lackluster DWG import and unit options.

[Justin Hunt]

Mainly because it is a Autodesk product. Acad has a huge market share making for a captive audience of architects. Simple evolution and focused marketing

 

JHV

[Koper]

and to add to the above, once you know your workflow it is very easy and simple, even when adjusting and incorporating a new technique.

 

I had to do experiential work at a company working with lightwave, got there and have never even opened lightwave before. As one of the 3D techs showed me around he got stuck with one of his techniques and i told him to do it in another way, he then thought that i was taking him for a ride and that i knew lightwave, which i didn't and still don't, cause after a week i went and worked for a guy using max.

 

I just think that within max one can do something in so many different ways easily without actually knowing the exact technique, all you need to know is the basic of max and 3d

[martin walker]

3D studio (us older guys will remember !) was the natural progression from 2D Autocad in the late 80s / early 90s...as such its evolved over time as the 3D cousin of Autocad.

 

3Ds Max always seems to have had a snobbish hate campaign against it...which I couldnever understand. It was a little flakey upto ver 4 /5...but it seems very stable these days, ands it often 3rd party plugins and renderers which cause the bulk of crashes.

[IC]

Things don't seem to be quite as clear cut now as they were 2 or 3 years ago. Most job adverts still ask for Max/Vray experience but LightWave and Cinema 4D, amongst others, are becoming more popular for arch viz work.

In the recent 3D World Arch Viz supplement, there were a surprising number of high profile interviewees using LightWave.

As well as those, one of my favourite studios is MIR Visuals http://www.mir-visuals.com who, I think, still solely use it. As do the Paradigm guys who are regulars here.

 

I personally think the option of using VRay for rendering has more influence on the remaining trend towards people using Max than file linking capability has. Add to that the persisent school of thought that 'Max is for games and architecture, LightWave for effects, Maya and XSI for film....etc' and you miss the fact that they can all do anything the capable user wants them to.

[richmondlu]

I have never used max but the only reason i don't is because I went to school for 3D environments for film and games and all they teach you is Bryce for landscape and Maya for everything else. I have dabbled a bit in Max for a company in Detroit but all they had me do was cars. I never got into architecture until i was hired for my actual ACAD drafting skills. Then i said hey why not try to do what these guys and gals are doing on this site in Maya , because there is no one around here doing anything like this. Now here i am a year later a lead 3d Visualizer/Drafter at a great architectural firm. I admit i have a ways to go for 3d interiors but with the help of this site and the guys and gals here that really don't care what program you use. I know i will become better even though i am an out cast using Maya.

Sorry for my ranting but i have seen this post so many times and when i first started here i also posted it. I just want to get the message out that it doesn't matter what program you use it all depends on your love for what you do, and the time and dedication you are willing to put into that love that makes you good at what you do no matter what program you use, and life for that matter you get out of it what you put in!

 

 

The 7:30 show will be the same as the 6:30 show

Thank you i will be here all week i'm out!

[Eric]

When I first started with 3D - I bought an educational copy of Autocad that came with 3D Studio (the dos version I think). I didn't really know how to use it, but the sample files were cool. Later when I decided 3D Vis was the path I wanted to take my career, I started researching what the big players were, and it seemed 3D Studio was popular in the gaming industry, but was also used in the movie industry. I believe it was also the cheapest of the big programs? After staring at the $3,400 price tag (what, 10 years ago?), I found out I could buy a student copy for less than $1,000, so I bought it and did all the tuts I could find.

 

I agree though that it's not really about the software you use, but more about how well you can use it.

[FlytE]

I sort of agree with ian when he says vray has a role to play in the max's popularity. I for one find that for all autodesk boasts about the compatibility between max and autocad, I still regularly encounter problems when working between the two... which is why i prefer modelling in max. As far as vray goes if I had to work in a different environment I could happily switch to to a new modelling package, but I would be hard pushed to give up vray to render with.

[ZFact]

im getting fed up waiting for Vray for C4D... how difficult

would it be to use max as a link to vray.... a costly link

i know.... but would it take long to learn vray or would

there be quiet a bit of max to learn also... or is there

any other route to vray for less cash

 

also.... has anyone modelled in cinema before and made

the change over to max.... how different was it modelling

in max....

[Matt Clementson]

im getting fed up waiting for Vray for C4D...

You could always use finalRender for C4D

[johnmon11]

Thanks for the answers, folks. I'm definitely in the camp that any program is only as capable as it's user, it's just something I've noticed over the years. I too was trained in Maya, but then got a job in broadcast which brought me to Lightwave. I've been using it ever since. I've loved it's simplicity over Maya (which made me feel like I had to reinvent the wheel everytime I needed one, mind you, this was in 3.0-4.0 days, so much may have changed). Just my opinion.

 

Also, I can get another seat of Lightwave for $495. Compared to 3DS at c.$3500... well, there IS no comparison in my book. The only thing that gives me pause is the widespread community support for 3DS insofar as plugins, model libraries, etc. and better interaction with Autodesk's architectural and design packages.

[Justin Hunt]

me too, sometimes I miss working with it too

 

3DS R4 and ever since adopted the attitude of plugins and released the SKD to anyone who wanted to develope on their own made for a very flexible program growth. Hence the prevelance of so many renderers.

 

Once a plugin has prooved itself then and only then is it incorporated into the main package. Maya, Lightwave and the likes always took this as cheating. They are learning though.

 

As one who has used many different 3D programs over the years, I always seem to return to Max. I found the shaders in Lightwave to be powerful but clumsy. Strangly I could never get comfortable with the C4D workflow and interface. Maya is too complex. Microstation is a great modeller but the renderer is 10 years outdated. ADT is easy, quick but also very dumb. Modo looks very promising and powerful.

 

JHV

 

 

JHV

[ZFact]

As one who has used many different 3D programs over the years, I always seem to return to Max. I found the shaders in Lightwave to be powerful but clumsy. Strangly I could never get comfortable with the C4D workflow and interface. Maya is too complex. Microstation is a great modeller but the renderer is 10 years outdated. ADT is easy, quick but also very dumb. Modo looks very promising and powerful.

 

I use vectorworks for modelling and bentley for 2D drafting and cinema

and Final Render for rendering... i have started to learn modelling in cinema

but think i might be going in the wrong direction....

 

if i am going to the trouble of learning a new modeller should i go to max

or given my current knowledge of microstation should i start learning that.

I really want to consider the future and where things are heading in archviz.

 

Perhaps it may be time to learn revit for future BIM's... any advice?

[FlytE]

True BIM is a whole different direction and really it is not archviz at all. The renders that arise from BIM are only really taking the final project model and making it pretty.... the model itself is designed to hold all the necessary information about the construction of the building.

 

Thats not to say you couldnt use a BIM application to model, but its like buying a stretch limo to go to the shops. It might have state of the art confort and all the champagne in the fridge, but you can probably get there just as fast and efficently in a volvo.

[ZFact]

True BIM is a whole different direction and really it is not archviz at all. The renders that arise from BIM are only really taking the final project model and making it pretty.... the model itself is designed to hold all the necessary information about the construction of the building.

 

Thats not to say you couldnt use a BIM application to model, but its like buying a stretch limo to go to the shops. It might have state of the art confort and all the champagne in the fridge, but you can probably get there just as fast and efficently in a volvo.

 

Ok perhaps revit anit the way to go... but would you stick with vectorworks?

or make the move to max... or utilize my skills gained already from microstation 2d drafting and learn the 3D modelling side of microstation.

then export out to vray for rendering...

 

Max just seems like the way to go but i have concerns with the length

of time it may take to pick up... has anyone moved from a cAD based

extruded polygon style of modelling to a pure modelling application

such as max... how long did it take to pick up?

[DuskZero]

I use max because when I studied architecture, the package they had (and gave a brief course on) was Viz1.

 

I tried using Maya for a little while, but found it very frustrating when I was used to max workflow (No click-drag-create?! - Only create primitives at 0,0,0?!) These things have been addressed in the latest version of Maya we saw demo'd, but it was enough to put me off.

 

I think the majority of people stick with the first piece of software they spend some time on because they are used to it. Personally I found max to be the most intuitive piece of software I've used, and learning new areas is easy as the help is better than any other package I've used, too.

 

Sam

[Trevor Tizard]

Hi Paul,

 

Like you I began modelling from CAD by extruding lines etc. I was in fact using AutoCAD r10 but the principals are the same. I now model everything in Max (Viz to be exact) because it is simply a much faster way of working. There are of course different ways of doing things to get to the same finishing point, but having taken the plunge to change my workflow I find I now have more time to concentrate on my materials and lighting.

 

The actual time it takes you to learn a different approach will depend entirely upon you, however, I found this quite a rapid move (weeks rather than months) and one that will always evolve.

 

If you do decide to opt for Max, you may well pick things up that much quicker due to the huge amount of assistance available, expecially from forums like this one.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Trev

[ZFact]

 

Like you I began modelling from CAD by extruding lines etc. I was in fact using AutoCAD r10 but the principals are the same.

 

how does max differ from cad based extruded polygon / polyline style

modelling in terms of its approach....

[Trevor Tizard]

Ok, I hope I can make this clear................

 

In the past I would extrude lines along the path of walls from a plan view, with a line for each segment so as to create window and door openings. This could also be done by making boolean extractions from the extruded wall for openings.

 

Now I will trace over an external wall elevation imported to max with the line/rectangle commands and convert this to an editable poly to create a waal with door and window openings.......much faster.

 

Hope this helps.

[IC]

Surely you could do that with elevations in Autocad with extruded polylines or rectangles and booleans?

 

Anyway, I don't think you have to drop one method in favour of the other. Sometimes I model in CAD, sometimes not, depending on the project.

[ZFact]

I will trace over an external wall elevation imported to max with the line/rectangle commands and convert this to an editable poly to create a waal with door and window openings.......much faster.

 

thats exactly how i work in vectorworks... simply trace around the

imported autocad drawing elevations and extract openings from

the poly's then extrude. i only use the floor plans to determine

positions of walls ect but not for creating them.

 

is there different user interfaces for different types of modelling

within max itself... if so which should i be in for modelling like this.

[Trevor Tizard]

No, just one interface in max.

[ZFact]

No, just one interface in max.

 

ok... i think i'll try out the demo and see how i get on....

 

thanks for all the advice so far.... but watch this thread please

as i may need some help...

[FlytE]

Truthfully i could sit here all day and tell you all the things max can do but it really wont make a difference until you try it yourself.

 

What I can tell you is that I moved from ArchiCAD to max and found that they were worlds apart. ArchiCAD is a BIM application where alot of functions are automated etc. Max on the other hand whether you like it or not, gives you control over every aspect of what you model. However even though these packages are worlds apart, i found the stepover fairly reasonable and once i understood the prinicples of max, the rest fell into place pretty well.

 

The best thing to do is throw yourself into it and try it.