Brazil Test...

[Mike Hagelsieb]

The Company I work for finally put in for Brazil r/s. I was playing around with it and so far love it. This was a quick test I did...not really sure why I'm posting it. I'm just excited to learn new software. :winkgrin:

 

 

 

Perhaps there might be a Brazil section in the forums coming soon?

Any pointers from any veteran Brazil users out there??

[kunstraum.tv]

very grainy. to avoid it you have to use very high settings in brazil. that´s a big disadvantage of brazil especially when you are doing arch. renderings. that´s the reason why i have switched to vray and i´m very happy with it. clean, great look and very fast. i like brazil, but for my "everyday work" it´s the wrong tool !

[Mike Hagelsieb]

Actually all the grain was done in post production. I added the grain in photoshop. This whole concept was just a really quick test to see how the software works. So far I'm very pleased with it. I'm sure once I get into it I'll find something that I don't like or can get better results from another software package. The thing is I find it exciting to learn new software.

I appreciate your comments Mark . I truly love your work! Have you been using Vray for quite some time now? What software did you use to creat most of the images on your site? Well keep up the great work!

-Mike

[kunstraum.tv]

most of the pictures were done with vray. hmm....i think i have to update my site, so many new pictures here on my computer.

 

the early work was done with viz4 and radiosity. f.e. kapelle (church). but for me radiosity in this form is a dead technology. when i loaded this scene 1.2 gb ram gone just because of the "lightmeh". for small rooms it´s okay, but for larger scenes it´s terrible. and the quality ! viz4/max5 is faster than lightscape, but lightscape looks and works much better. even today. so i switched to another renderer. but which one ? fR ? go away !!! i worked with 0.15 and it was horrible. cebas has a aggressive pr but little behind it. and still in the images of fR stage1 you can see on their website: gi-errors in every corner, on every wall. brazil i have mentioned above. so i tested vray and was glowing. very clean and very fast with a brilliant ui. and above all a wonderfull forum. very kind and helpful and even vlado, one of the programmer, helps you with every question. can you imagine edwin braun from cebas will ever do this ? ) so, i don´t regret the investment in vray.

 

excuse my english

[Ricardo Eloy]

May I put my 2 cents here?

I've been using VRay for quite a while now, since 2001 or so, and decided to take a closer look at Brazil (ok, I admit, the name itself was very attractive ). Well, the fact is that, so far, it looks very slow and complicated. I've been comparing the 2 renderers and found out that I can get similar results with both, but with one MAJOR difference: time. To achieve the same results, it took over 3 times longer to render with Brazil (did I make myself clear?). Splotchiness is a normal result with Brazil, and takes a long time to get rid of them. With VRay, I get a great image in just a few minutes (really few, like 1 or 2). It's the greatest renderer I've seen so far.

[]

Rick

[Connie Jacobs]

Since I don't see some of you in our client database, perhaps you are using the Brazil 0.4.53 public test version to form these opinions. This would be unwise since the pub test is not the Brazil 1.0 full-featured version and does not contain but a fraction of the features. Spreading this kind of misinformation about the commercial product based on the public test helps no one.

 

---- temporary aside.... ---------------

 

A lot of people in this forum post opinions based on crack software. Please know that the hackers introduced bugs and performance problems that a legit version of Brazil does not have. That's the nature of crack software and it hurts everyone, especially hard-working, software craftsmen who spend years researching, designing, coding, debugging, modifying, adding, and refining their work--much the same sort of process as an artist, only to have it stolen and distributed instantly to every corner of the globe and criticized for bugs a non-hacked version doesn't have.

 

------ aside done... --------------------------

 

We have arch viz guys write us daily thanking us for the artist-friendly interface that frees one from the clunky constraints of other software packages. You can simply work (adjusting lights, cameras, etc) naturally, without the software UI getting in the way and they behave how you expect. You can undersample for extremely fast test renders to get where you need it and then have confidence when you render the final it will be predictable and look as you expect. It's so predictable that you can make 11th hour changes with picky clients and not have to relight or reset your whole scene.

 

And, yes, Brazil has tons of controls (much more controllability than other renderers) and SplutterFish offers several tutorials, docs, 1.0 web forum, live online staff support etc, to learn how to use them. Brazil is not a designed to be a one-click solution that produces generic results. You can control almost every aspect of your render if you want. But just because Brazil offers you the control that no other renderer does (and I say that confidence), you can get great results on day one with it's logical default settings. Brazil grows with the artist as far as s/he wants to learn its capabilities and push it to the highest levels of realism or desired style. And I don't think I've ever seen more beautful images than Brazil images.

 

Performance/Quality ratio. Brazil can be very fast if you just need everyday results. If you try to learn how to use it for this with a buggy crack then yes, you'll blindly crank up the settings too high or not know how to use the high performance Brazil materials, accelerators, etc, and then blame the software when in fact you don't know what you're doing.

 

Vray is a great renderer for your fast-turnover, bread and butter stills, and I think an architecture firm would do well to have both vray and brazil in their arsenel.

 

But they are NOT the same. When you need to produce complex animations, or the flexibility to achieve a particular style (watercolor for instance) or to push the quality level to photoreal where the clients need to see exactly what something is going to look like (as much as possible in CG anyway) then in my opinion, there's no choice but Brazil. It is simply a more sophisticated tool. With Brazil you don't need to hit that "it just won't get that final look I want no matter how much I tweak" wall.

 

By the way, to the original poster (and to other registered 1.0 brazilians), if you want to talk to other arch viz guys using Brazil 1.0, the 1.0 forum is a great place to start. If your Brazil is registered to your company, then let us know and we can set you up a separate login. As far as setting one up here, we'll leave that up to Jeff.

 

Sorry this sounds like an ad for Brazil. But when I see misinformation being spread by dubious Brazil users, then someone needs to set the record straight.

 

Connie Jacobs

SplutterFish, LLC

 

[ May 20, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Connie Jacobs ]

[STRAT]

hey Tony, calm down there.

 

i'm a fully paid up user of several bits of software, and i too dont go round 'theiving' software, but i certainly dont take offence at connies opening statement. it was just a general sweeping statement which does hold truth. not aimed at us individuals, but as a whole.

 

i bet allot of ppl in these forums do use illegal software, you telling me all the forum members are employed or in-work free lancers? i bet a fair proportion of members are just interested hobbyests. and why not?

 

we are side by side with warez users in this place like it or not, it's a subject that isn't tolerated here and ppl do get banned and/or reported to the authorites. but most dont. and it's impossible to police everybodies movements, but we do try our best

 

[ May 21, 2003, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ]

[Tony]

Ok Strat, exactly which of the two members who responded to this thread with a negative view of brazil do you think are thieves? She said she was responding to one of them in this specific thread.

 

I understand the policy of not allowing discussion on pirated software and I agree with and support that policy.

 

But why is it allright, and even defended by this forums administrators, to accuse someone of illegal use because they prefer a different program.

 

I guess I should just allow this type of accusation to be made against members that I respect and believe to be honest people without complaining. But, I don't live in a police state and I don't believe everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

 

Obviously, I'm in the minority on this opinion, and that is a sad state of affairs for this forum.

 

Was that calm enough for you.

[STRAT]

i cant see any evidence of wrong play here.

 

how do you come to the conclusion ppl are using illegal software? who says they're not using the public beta release versions?

 

[edit]

 

Connie isn't accusing anybody. she's just defending her company's product and pointing out that the beta versions and cracked versions of the product in no way indicate the full product's true capabilities

 

[edit]

 

[ May 21, 2003, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ]

[sgee]

Yea I agree with Strat

 

Tony Calm down ....

I know there are lot of people who are using versions of all types of illegal software, in these forums. And I agree that cracked software loses a lot of the stability and functionality of the legal version.

 

Connie was not saying that the above people were using illegal version, but that their names were not on the Database…. That’s all.

 

There could be many reasons for this. One is that the copy they are using is illegal?

 

So who knows who is legal or illegal, as long as you know that you are legal. You cannot control 100% who is legal or illegal.

[kunstraum.tv]

what sense !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i´m very disappointed about splutterfish. i didn´t read this forum for a while and i´m very suprised to read such a post of splutterfish. its very imfamy to claim

 

1. rick would use a cracked version just because they cant find him in the database, she didn´t say it clearly, but hey ....it´more then clear what she meant...

 

and

 

2. WE just don´t know how to use brazil in the right way.

 

i used A LEGAL VERSION of brazil in my last office A VERY LONG time und i know brazil VERY WELL and still i use vray for my own because I THINK that vray ist faster AND produces THE SAME quality as brazil WHEN YOU KNOW how to use it right. its just the point of view what you prefer, there is NO objectivity

 

i´m very shocked, because i have written very friendly emails with splutterfish and they were very kind to me. i don´t know why they have written such a "strange" post !!

 

i´m very angry, so sorry for my english *ggrrrh* )

[STRAT]

it was prehaps a bit strange that Connie should pipe up with a glowing advert for Brazil r/s in the middle of a WIP thread. not really needed, i agree.

 

she could have dramatically paraphrased that little speach maybe

 

And i still dont agree she accused Rick or anyone else here personally of illegal doings. The free beta version of Brazil is used by thousands of ppl still. she was literally towing the standard company line, as indeed i would.

 

She was more concerned with setting ppl straight about judging the software on versions other than the full commercial version. she wasn't accusing individuals of theft. now you can take it how you want, but what would she have to gain? nothing.

[kunstraum.tv]

maybe you are right with the free version and i´ve gone a bit too far......but still i think she´s wrong with what she said. but diffrent opinions are okay, i think....

[Ernest Burden III]

Connie isn't accusing anybody.

Oh yes she is:

 

Since I don't see some of you in our client database...A lot of people in this forum post opinions based on crack software...when I see misinformation being spread by dubious Brazil users, then someone needs to set the record straight.>Connie Jacobs>SplutterFish, LLC

She read posts then went to the database to see who is, and isn't, a registered user. Clearly she has 'names' she feels are using cracked Brazil. She has used the method of eliminating those known to be honest from the pool of those suspected of being dishonest--which leaves a lot of people in the pool. She should send her list of suspects to JM or stick to her positive message. If she wants to implicate forum members then she needs to follow through with the names or else appologise for the smear campaign.

 

I'm not defending anyone using illegal software, but to cast people into suspicion without offering proof or appology is JUST AS BAD.

[Enlighten]

I for one have been totally turned off from even testing or looking into brazil after connies comments. Maybe someone should inform connie superiors that she is going onto forums and disregarding professionalism to band about random accusations. If this is the attitude to be expected from slutterfish people will turn away from there product in droves. I dont think connie relises how professional and how much standing this forum has in the arhitectural cg community.

 

Enlighten

[plastic]

i know how it hurts to watch people stealing your work while you can't really do somthing about it.

but expessing anger in a public place doesn't help anything, it just unsures potential clients and probably pisses legit clients off.

 

another thing that pisses people off is the restricted demo thing.

i got a demo from splutterfish, but i know a few people who never got a response when they asked for it.

 

regarding brazil, it is a very fine renderer, but IMO it lacks in the GI department to be fully useable for architectual viz.

(dont argue, i know what i'm talking about)

i am sure it could be easy to fix if it was a priority for splutterfish.

but it seems the focus is motion blur and advanced shaders, which is a great thing. (but not for architects)

i always saw brazil as a potential mental ray killer, not as an alternative to lightscape or GI renderers like vray.

[supaslims]

Since I don't see some of you in our client database...A lot of people in this forum post opinions based on crack software...when I see misinformation being spread by dubious Brazil users, then someone needs to set the record straight.>Connie Jacobs>SplutterFish, LLC

If this aint an accusation, i dont know what is!

 

defamation: the act of injuring someone's good name or reputation without justification, either orally or in writing; the condition of being defamed.

[quizzy]

pffffff... these kind of threads make me a little tired.. It all comes down to one thing: DON'T USE ILLEGAL SOFTWARE!!!!

If Alexander Bicalho would check up on me, for the license of MAX, he would not find me in his database, nor my company name. Reason: I "freelance" in an architect agency who has legal copies... there you go...

 

:ngesleep: :ngesleep: :ngesleep: :ngesleep: :angedead: :angedead: :angedead:

[Paul Griger]

I can understand Connie’s viewpoint since there was an incident a while back with a new user asking Q’s RE a cracked Brazil seat.

 

That being said, the way things were phrased by her left a bad taste in my mouth RE: her company’s product, Brazil.

 

If she just left it at this:

 

“Since I don't see some of you in our client database, perhaps you are using the Brazil 0.4.53 public test version to form these opinions.”

I wouldn’t even thought twice that she was accusing anyone here.

 

But to go on and say:

 

“A lot of people in this forum post opinions based on crack software.”

well, that is a rather serious accusation to the majority of us here.

 

Especially since out of the 1000+ CGA members, only about 32 members are heavily active in the forum and have over 100 posts. Now to say that “a lot” of CGA’s members use cracked software, to me that sounds like an accusation against the majority of the active community here.

 

Unfortunately my understanding was that she was accusing Rick. I may have misunderstood her, but that’s the interpretation I got from her statement.

 

And of all people to put this label on, Rick Elroy gets this? He is an incredibly active, positive member in the forum. He is one of the first to offer a constructive critique to newbies WIP’s. If there really were a Q regarding him using pirated software, then it would have been better handled in private with Rick and Jeff.

 

And her defense that anyone using

…the pub test is not the Brazil 1.0 full-featured version and does not contain but a fraction of the features. Spreading this kind of misinformation about the commercial product based on the public test helps no one.

All I can say is that if your public version or trial version isn’t even close to representing the full features of Brazil, then the real party that is truly guilty here of spreading “misinformation about the commercial product” is Splutterfish themselves. Just about any of Splutterfish’s competition has a trial or free version of their software. I see that at this time Brazil has no such trial version. So how is a consumer supposed to try out the full features of Brazil?

 

 

Since Connie is the COO of Spultterfish and her responsibilities include marketing, I’d have to say that her marketing for Brazil on this post was an unfortunate black eye for Splutterfish.

 

Maybe a public apology to the members of CGA would be appropriate.

 

And next time handle pirating investigations in private. Only after the matter is resolved would it be wise to remind the community that using pirated software is illegal and that a recent pirating issue was spotted and handled on this forum.

 

Now get that trial version of Brazil up so potential consumers can experience the full, rich features that you cite!

 

rgds,

 

paul

[Paul Griger]

Originally posted by supaslims:

quote:

---

Since I don't see some of you in our client database...A lot of people in this forum post opinions based on crack software...when I see misinformation being spread by dubious Brazil users, then someone needs to set the record straight.>Connie Jacobs>SplutterFish, LLC

If this aint an accusation, i dont know what is!

 

defamation: the act of injuring someone's good name or reputation without justification, either orally or in writing; the condition of being defamed. I’d have to agree.

 

It’s akin to a politician saying in a campaign;

 

“Now I’m not saying that my opponent hates kids, but if he doesn’t pass this legislature, then thousands of children will starve.”

 

Gee, thanks. Glad to see that you’re not accusing me of anything terrible

 

[ May 21, 2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Paul Griger ]

[kunstraum.tv]

in my last office we bought brazil because we thought it was the best product for our work. it turned out wrong ! it´s nearly impossible to use brazil for hudge architectural work unless you have A LOT oft time. but that was okay....the price of brazil is no fortune, we update nearly 15 autocad licences every year, that´s much more money to spent. so brazil was just a very very little point in our budget. why should a prof. company use warez stuff instead of paying this small price ? and most of us here are prof. or work in a prof. company. i really don´t know what she intented with her post. i think it was the wrong place. she should post it in a forum full of 15years old kids, that would have more sense. brazil is a fantastic renderer, but not for our work....that´s all. regardless what splutterfish say

 

then i started my own office and i switched to vray. with vray we can now do the work we wanted to do. even big animations. no chance to do that with brazil in the same time. maybe vray "just" reaches 95% of the quality of brazil, but it has 400% the speed of brazil. and that´s a good deal. and connie can say 5times that you only have to know how to use brazil to speed up rendering. that´s wrong ! i now what i did with brazil and i know what i´m doing now with vray...

 

and again, you know...my english )

[Tony]

I find it very strange and also very insulting to the members of this forum that you would say a very large sector of our members use cracked or illegal software!

 

This is a very strange way for a company to try and convince people that their software is superior and that we would no this if we stoped useing illegal software.

 

I can sum your statement up in two words "screw you" and your overpriced inferior software.

 

The members of this forum are some of the highest regarded artist in their field and we value their opinions when it comes to quality of a given product.

 

Just because your product does not meet the same standards as one of your competitions does not give you the right to state that we are all a bunch of thieves!

 

I for one will never consider your product for purchase due to your statement.

 

I hope the other members of this forum are just as insulted by your remarks as I am and consider a different product when it comes time to upgrade.

[Tony]

Rick

 

I am very surprised to hear that you are a thief or at least Connie says you are!

 

I have a great respect for your work as I'm sure everyone on this forum does. I find it very, very hard to believe that you would use illegal software.

 

I agree with your comparison of brazil and v-ray. I guess I will be accused of being a thief as well!

[Sawyer]

This is what I found odd:

 

 

Originally posted by Connie Jacobs:

 

We have arch viz guys write us daily thanking us for the artist-friendly interface that frees one from the clunky constraints of other software packages.

Connie Jacobs

SplutterFish, LLC

I have not tried Brazil or V-ray but I am not used to seeing a criticism reversed like that. Seems akin to playground logic, "That sucks" "No it doesn't" "Yes it does".

 

We here are arch viz guys and our opinion is pretty well informed. I don't use her program but I don't like our opinions seemingly brushed aside.

Maybe the crits weren't that constructive but they seem to be valid something that Connie should listen to not discredit.

 

Also I have been thinking about a 3rd party renderer (1.5 weeks with max 5 & not happy orangesad )

and I think that the complete contents of this post will make me lean towards v-ray. Connies comments did help.

[schmoron13]

I have mixed sentiments on this topic. I work for an earhquake engineering NOT-FOR-PROFIT and since we deal with NSF (National Science Foundation), hacked programs are WAY out of the question. ON the other hand, it's hard to convince my boss to get new software when I can't test it out. I ended up having to beg Adobe to send us a copy of the Digital Video Collection ASAP which we needed for a seminar because the After Effects demo didn't save or render (and their site conveniently failed to mention this). But what would have happened if this was a program unfamiliar to my boss (a la a 3rd party renderer, plugin, etc)? I understand giving out full demos is risky (easily hacked) but I would much prefer a timed-out demo as opposed to ones with half the features turned off, which doesn't really allow you to "test" out the package.

 

Also, I have a legit copy of 3ds max 5.1 and as most users can attest, it's super buggy, so I'm always annoyed when the likes of connie mention that buggy software is due to hacked versions. If a megapower like microsoft can't get all the bugs out of their OS, what right do smaller companies have in asserting "flawless" software?

 

I couldn't get a beta-copy of Brazil from splutterfish and only after I posted on the webboard asking why certain aspects of the software I downloaded from kazaa (it was supposed to be a beta) were disabled did they send me a beta version. I tried it out and liked it, but it was way to esoteric for a rank-beginner such as myself, and when I came across vray FREE, it was more intuative and guilt-free.

 

I stopped using cracked software, holding the same beliefs that connie's remark hold in that cracked packages are buggy (alledgedly), but after a year of this, I've come to the conclussion that THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE.