which codec for animation

[markf]

Perhaps this has been discussed before, but here goes.

 

Does anyone have any experience and can offer opinion on which codec and what quality settings are best for rendering out animation from Max 9?

 

This would be for showing 15-30 sec animation on computer monitor or projecting from a computer onto a screen as part of a Power Point presentation.

 

If someone can opoint me to a discussion of this or offer any advice, thanks in advance.

[Ernest Burden III]

Perhaps this has been discussed before

 

Frequently.

 

You would be best served rendering out uncompressed frames in TIF format. Then using a program like Premiere to compile and output animation. This keeps your options open. Also, if a .avi file is writing but doesn't finish, you can lose the whole thing. Quicktime will save however far you got.

 

Quicktime is a good format using Sorrenson3 codec.

 

If you will be using your own computer then you can use DivX for example, but most people don't have it so your file wouldn't play on their machine. Best to use a standard codec like Indeo5, though I think it won't play properly on a Mac.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Frequently.

 

You would be best served rendering out uncompressed frames in TIF format. Then using a program like Premiere to compile and output animation. This keeps your options open. Also, if a .avi file is writing but doesn't finish, you can lose the whole thing. Quicktime will save however far you got.

 

Quicktime is a good format using Sorrenson3 codec.

 

If you will be using your own computer then you can use DivX for example, but most people don't have it so your file wouldn't play on their machine. Best to use a standard codec like Indeo5, though I think it won't play properly on a Mac.

 

...recently with Quicktime i have written out to a uncompressed MOV file or an animation compressed MOV file (lossless) and then went under file, export, and used the LAN based settings, and modify the dimension size to match what i need this method uses the h.264 codec. i always struggled with sorenson myself, but have not tried version 3.

 

you will need quicktime pro to do that.

 

...but anyway, if you are on a PC i would stay away fom Quicktime if you goal is to put it into a PowerPoint. if memory serves, Quicktime and PowerPoint play fine on Mac, but become troublesome on PC. i would suggest WMV if the end goal is a PowerPoint.

[Ernest Burden III]

WMV if the end goal is a PowerPoint.

 

I think WMV imposes a certain size and Pixel Aspect Ratio, it does exporting from Premiere. I wonder if it does out of Max?

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

not sure. i don't have a lot of use on the interface directly out of Premiere. in the past when i have used WMV i wrote out an uncompressed AVI, and then Windows Media (free) to convert it to a WMV format.

 

however, i thought most of the options could be over rode in the export interface for Premiere, but maybe not. if i remember right, the export interface was geered towards presets, so you would have to figure out how to over ride the presets. the standalone Media Encoder is a little more open, and has more options.

 

...overall, for this year, my choices in compressions have been Quicktime h.264 and Divx. it would be nice if Divx could position themselves as a little more mainstream, and start to get support built into Quicktime, and heaven forbid, Windows Media Player. i think they have a stigma built around them concerning all of the illegal movie downloading that really pushed the format to become what it is today.

[STRAT]

ideally i like to use MOV, but i cant garantee my clients having the player installed, so i too have recently turned to WMV again. it really is a beautiful and flexible codec.

 

if not, i'll just pog things onto an auto running dvd.

[markf]

Ernest,

 

Thank you for your reply. It is helpful. I have done some animation but don't get much call for it. I'm trying to expand on what I offer my clients and am revisiting animation.

 

I have rendered out to .tga frames and used Premiere for titles, transitions, sound and output. It's been a while, so I have Premiere 6.0. New version $900. I noticed Premiere Elements but will have to look into wether it's capable enough.

 

I have another question for you on an unrelated topic. May I e-mail you?

 

Travis,

 

Thank you for your reply. I tried the QT h.264 codec and it really changed the colors of my scene. Not good. I also tried QT with the cinepak codec and had bad results. All of this, limited testing, directly out of Max.

 

I'm unfamiliar with WMV and don't seem to have it as an option on my computer. I'd like to check it out if someone can point me where to get it.

 

It is also important to what I'm doing that it be compatable with most computers.

 

Thank you all for the replies!

[AJLynn]

I'm pretty sure you can generate an uncompressed AVI file then use Windows Media Encoder to make a WMV file. That would be best for Powerpoint for Windows use. There is a component out there that allows Quicktime, that I found several years ago but I don't remember what it's called or where to get it.

 

The other option would be an AVI file, which would give you a lot of codec options, but the computer it plays on needs to have the codec or an appropriate DirectShow filter installed (ffdshow is a filter for a remarkable number of formats.) I've had good results with 2-pass Xvid as my AVI codec, but that's not standard Windows stuff so the computer that plays it needs Xvid or ffdshow installed.

[markf]

Andrew,

 

Thank you. I'm going to check out the WME. I downloaded it from the link you provided.

[markf]

I thought it might be of interest to post my findings.

 

I got WME and it works quite well. I rendered a sequence of .tgs frames. Imported them into Premiere. Exported an uncompressed avi.

 

One issue us that WME will not accept an odd number of pixels. I originaly had 800 x 533. I had to re-render it at 800 x 532 to get WME to accept it.

 

I used the "Convert a file"wizard which created an wmv file that was 1280 x 720. I didn't want to upsize my animation but the wizard insited on this. The resulting file is a much smaller size than anything else I could achieve. It looks great and plays very well and very large on my WXP machine with Media Player 10.

 

I tried using the custom option and keeping the size at 800 x 532. The result was not good at all. Don't know why.

 

The video size/resize options in Media Player are confusing. I read the help but I'm still confused about how or if upsampling from 800 x 532 to 1280 x 720 is being done.

 

This seems to be a good way to get .avi files. Now I need to look into the best options for outputting to QuickTime .mov.

[jonas-thomsen]

Ernest,

 

Thank you for your reply. It is helpful. I have done some animation but don't get much call for it. I'm trying to expand on what I offer my clients and am revisiting animation.

 

I have rendered out to .tga frames and used Premiere for titles, transitions, sound and output. It's been a while, so I have Premiere 6.0. New version $900. I noticed Premiere Elements but will have to look into wether it's capable enough.

 

 

just a word of advice do NOT use premiere elements. There is no option for user defined pixel size of the movies that you export, only preset. you need the full permiere

[Geoffc]

Anyone still monitoring this discussion?

 

I'm trying to very simply output to uncompressed avi from premiere with audio, and it produces a 1.3 gig file (which should be fine), but then neither Win media player or encoder can open the file.

 

I'm using the export-->avi-->compressor=none

 

When I've tried the export-->'uncompressed avi' it gives me the correct sound but a picture that is all slanted wildly diagonally.

 

Ideas?

 

edited to add: ok, when I take the uncompressed audio out, it worked, but still had some lines running through the video when the camera moves.

 

now im spamming, but i'll leave my comments above so others can see.

I got it to work by turning it to "progressive scan" under the keyframe tab in premiere. from there i was able to open in win media encoder and render out a decent wmv file.

 

so, ideas on audio including audio with an uncompressed avi? my sources was simply an mp3.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Anyone still monitoring this discussion?

 

I'm trying to very simply output to uncompressed avi from premiere with audio, and it produces a 1.3 gig file (which should be fine), but then neither Win media player or encoder can open the file.

 

I'm using the export-->avi-->compressor=none

 

When I've tried the export-->'uncompressed avi' it gives me the correct sound but a picture that is all slanted wildly diagonally.

 

Ideas?

 

edited to add: ok, when I take the uncompressed audio out, it worked, but still had some lines running through the video when the camera moves.

 

now im spamming, but i'll leave my comments above so others can see.

I got it to work by turning it to "progressive scan" under the keyframe tab in premiere. from there i was able to open in win media encoder and render out a decent wmv file.

 

so, ideas on audio including audio with an uncompressed avi? my sources was simply an mp3.

 

if progressive scan fixed the diagnol problem, then yes, your file was interlaced. interlacing serves a purpose if going to a standard NTSC television....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlace

 

computer monitors, and high def tv's are all progressive scan.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan

 

..as for audio compression compression. you are starting with a compressed format (mp3), so your quality is always going to subpar. you always want uncompressed audio also.

[Geoffc]

the progressive took care of the slight horizontal lines. the crazy diagonal picture is created when I select "Uncompressed AVI" as the export type.

 

That works for audio, but gives me a twisted picture, completely unviewable.

If I used "Microsoft AVI" and turn the video compressor to "none", it creates a corrupted file when I include the audio with. Won't open at all. I've even tried using a wav version of this audio track.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

when you say corrupt, do yo mean something that looks like this?

 

http://www.cwi.nl/projects/dyntex/img/chromainterlaced_interlaced_cropped.jpg

[Geoffc]

Here's a screen from the "uncompressed AVI" with sound, with diagonals.

 

The corrupt file from the microsoft avi, no compressor creates a large 1.3 gig file but cannot be opened at all. Win media player says it has encountered a problem and won't go further.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

i used to have a problem with large avi's going corrupt, but i thought it was when they crossed 2 gigs. to fix the problem i would divide the file into 1 minute chunks, then re-stitch them with VirtualDub.

 

i can't remember exactly, but i think i use the Microsoft AVI, then set the compressor to none, the same way tha tis giving you the corrupt file.

 

try writing out half of the file, and see if that works.

[Geoffc]

Awesome, I'll give it a try.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

 

 

--ok, I found the answer, simple enough. My main Boxx is Win64, and it wouldn't play the MS Avi uncompressed file, nor would either version of the WME encoder on this machine open it.

But, it would open on my older P4 which is only XP home, WMP ver 11. So I had to use WME on that machine and output to wmv, which is a slower render, but the wmv settings work very well compression and audio wise.