Jim Kessler Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Here is an attempt to replicate the style used by Mr. Burden. I must agree that the standard PShop filters leave a lot to be desired. Line output from SketchUp and shaded render from 3dsmax with VRay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizzy Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 here are also two. I did not render in different layers and used the standard filters and tools from photoshop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Here is an attempt to replicate the style used by Mr. BurdenDamn, I'm in trouble! Don't forget to send me my cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingo Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Is 10 % commission per picture ok, Mr Burden ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Is 10 % commission per picture ok, Mr Burden ?You can get by on 10% of your fee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingo Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Not really. Last year someone want to have 10% of my fee just because he gave me the clients adress. ingo Fjorddesigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzagorski Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Damn... you bet me too it! When I saw Ernest pics the first thing I thought about for getting the extended lines look was Sketchup. Which version are you using? The last version I used was one of the early releases during a session with Yasser from Sketchup while I was at an AIA event in Honolulu... you can do some cool things with it. I did want to try importing a model from another package... then extend the lines as Sketchup does have its modelling limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kessler Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 MZ, 2.1.44. It is a great massing modeler. The only problem is with the model output. The 3ds format camera, from SU output, does not match up in term of the FOV so when you output the lines from SU and render a frame in 3dsmax with the smae dimensions the images do not overlay properly. After some quick pshop transforms, voila. The other issues with imported models is inferred face edges. You get a ton of edges that need to be either erased or hidden. The last and very big issue is with anti-aliasing, there is none. You resample the image to get AA for raster outputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reitveld Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Here is my test. I did this to show client on a job I was working on... they did not think to much of them as they just wanted hard renderings. Oh well their loss. I used the EyeCandy Jiggle and the KPT3 smudge tool. Also is a technique I learned from Rick Eloy here at CGArchitect. Thanks Rick. Ernest, Thanks again for sharing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myth Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Here is another attempt http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=pro15.jpg Mythili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Looks like Ernests fan-club is really hitting huge numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizzy Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 well nisus, what are you waiting for... Join the Club!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelfoZ Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 can i join to the club ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Quizzy: I really love Ernests results, but I don't want to do exactly the same as he does. I have developped my own ideas (cfr. unchallenge) and will fine-tune some of those by seeing EB3's marvellous renderings. The basic ideas are usefull to us - like a fellow trooper making his way through the jungle- but I am not interested in make replica's of his work or walk his exact steps so to speak. Besides, in my opinion. Hardly any replica I've seen here on the board has touched the 'soul' of EB3's NPR. Imho, those are all missing the 'essence' of a story... but that's just me of course rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingo Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by Dr nisus: ....Hardly any replica I've seen here on the board has touched the 'soul' of EB3's NPR. ......Oooow, how lovely, Ernest will love you for that quote, spring is coming, definitly :ebigrazz: But seriously, since EB has a traditional art backround he has a different understanding of those cg-art-copying thingy than us computer geeks. But didn't we all learn by copying the masters ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizzy Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Well for me its practice since i'm not very familiar with photoshop. i mean: I can't easily visualise my idea's with photoshop... And it would be fun to do an animation like this too, in after effects... Could be a cool result.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jucaro Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Can I join too? This is my attempt at NPR. ACAD was used to generate the hidden line and then photoshop was used for final compositing. I don't have sketchup here. Constructive crits are highly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcahunak Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Hey, Jucaro Accept for the tree, your image looks great. Just get rid of the tree. The rd lines from ACAD are a nice change for the latest EB movement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Only CAD hidden lines and Photoshop? :gebigeek: Dude, dude...wondeerful job, Jucaro! [] Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 think i'll work up one of my tecniques - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 didn't we all learn by copying the masters We learn by interpreting the masters, not by simple copying... since EB has a traditional art backround That's why cgartists should study art imho. Not just anyone trying out cg-stuff/hype/trendy applications is an artist imho. I feel that many turn to cg because they don't do well on traditional art, rather than to use cg as a shortcut to their goals. Strange enough, now I use traditional techniques to shortcut on cg... rgds nisus [ March 29, 2003, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: nisus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 That's why cgartists should study art imho. Not just anyone trying out cg-stuff/hype/trendy applications is an artist imho. There is certainly no magic medium that makes one an artist. Anything can be made into art in the right hands. Picasso turned a few bicycle parts into a bull. Taking a photograph is so easy an ape can do it, but very few people (I don't know about the apes) can produce photographs that most would concider art. Its not the tools used, its the vision of the person using them. CG is just another brush, camera, pile of old car parts. Using NPR techniques does not make CG renderings artistic any more than photo-realism does. It's just another way to do something. My main goal in persuing NPR techniques is to create a new visual vocabulary that is neither percieved as belonging to the pencil and paper world or the pixel and raytrace one, but some of both. It can only truely succeed if it has MORE than the sum of the bits it borrows. It is an interesting problem because it bridges the gap between the 2D world of works on paper or canvas, and the 3D world of built objects, like sculpture. We view it in a 2D space, but we expect interectivity, movement, within the scene. Doing linework and NPR textures and noise in animation challenges the root meaning of those elements. If they animate they vibrate and become more active elements than we are used to them being, and if they are static they become strangely objectified, which is the complete opposite of the usual role of things like lines. In other words (like I haven't already used up all the words available) NPR renderings have the effect of casting old-world players in new roles. I find that very interesting, and that, more than simply immitating what can be drawn or painted, is why I keep experimenting with NPR rendering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzagorski Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 For those of you people using sketchup for this NPR look.... I was playing about earlier and was exporting a hidden line render with extended lines from sketchup... then export a colour render without extended lines... Then combine them in photoshop so that you have more control over the lightness of the extended lines etc. Then, you can duplicate the colour image layer, set transparency to 50%... and use gaussian blur on the layer below... gives the image a less computer generated feel IMHO... and then add a grain to the whole thing.. What I would like to achieve is hidden line render (so that I only get the mainedges.. no sub-lines from more than one poly to create a single object... but to have the ability to generate extended lines... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingo Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 Originally posted by Ernest Burden: ...CG is just another brush, camera, pile of old car parts.... The problem is that cg is not "just" another brush..., it allows you to work with and create all kind of 2D art - like photography, watercolor painting, collage... - that makes it so unique. And that makes it so interesting, you can even combine all this techniques in one picture. Since you have that many possibilities its hard to find your own place or niche what you want to do with it. So thats why so many guys (why only guys ?) copy or imitate the traditional Ernest style, they want to learn how this works and what you can do with your 3D and your image editing software. By doing this its easier to find your own style in doing renderings, and for those of us who earn money with that its always good to show your clients something new or attract new clients with that new style. Just my two cents ingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 What I would like to achieve is hidden line render (so that I only get the mainedges.. no sub-lines from more than one poly to create a single object... but to have the ability to generate extended lines...That is what drove me to use Photoshop to generate line drawings from flat-renders--it eliminates the extra lines. But it is completely dependant on resolution, so I have used 8K output to do lines for a 4K final. They render in a few seconds, so its no problem. But then to get line extensions I had to use motion blurs. I used to do all the lines in CAD, but that required manual cleanup of those extra lines. Actually, I used to model so that there were very few of them by marking polygon visibility as I worked. But that isn't necessary with the Photoshop method. And I agree, layers for lines and other effects are the easiest way to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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