Revit9 to max9

[Justin Hunt]

The decision has been made and now we are switching to Revit as out BIM solution. Anyone got any good tips for optimizing the models and workflow for rendering in Max9. At the moment we are exporting a ACAD2007 dwg and file linking it into Max.

 

My issue is in how max deals with the model,

why all the blocks?

why the 1000000000000000000's of objects? and any way of optimizing the object count?

Is there a way to link via Layer?

 

We are well experienced in bringing in ADT and ACAD models and have ironed out the File Link issues, now we need to get Revit under control

 

any help and suggestions welcome

 

JHV

[Jorbu]

We're dealing with the same issues and haven't found an easy solution. I too would like to know if anyone has some experience in dealing with this.

[Arnold Sher]

..this is not a solution but might help you along as we deal with a lot of those issues as most of our clients are on revit. When they export for us a dwg file we will open that in autocad and export each layer out in 3ds format. then we bring that into max and that tends to make it tidier and in layers. Not the fastest process but atleast it is workable as you do not get millions of layers and it is much easier to navigate in max. One more advise... Redraw the glass as revit draws each panel seperately and tends to create millions of polygons. We usually get rid of all the panels and redraw and that tends to help. This is not a solution by any means but does help to manage it better...

[gfa2]

Yeah, this all seems pretty ridiculous. I've been fighting this for awhile and I was hoping that by the time I got to the bottom of this post someone would have laid out the perfect conditions for this work flow. Guess not.

 

I'm sure Arnold's method works, sounds like it would, but I might as well get out my stone tablet and chisel....you've got to be kidding me!!!!

 

Part of me is surprised that these 2 Autodesk products don't work better together (because this is not a new problem), but the other part knows better than to hope they ever will.

[Vince Paske]

I'm dealing with the same issue, and I must say it's quite a mess. I wish Autodesk would've thought this one through a little bit more. Not only do you get the endless list of layers, but if you edit one of the solids exported from Revit in Autocad, it doesn't translate into 3dsMax very well. For instance, I wanted to add a soldier course of brick into a wall without going back into Revit so I just sliced the wall and named the piece 3d-Brick Soldier (this is real early in the design process and solid modeling for me is just faster than dealing with Revit's wall types, for now at least). Re-loading the modeling, the part I sliced out was still associated with the original wall and I couldn't assign it a different material. Strange and very frustrating.

[Justin Hunt]

I was going through the Revit and Max help files yesterday, it seems that it is working by design, pitty the design is flawed.

 

One thing I did try way exploding all the blocks in ACAD and then linking into max. This enabled some of the objects to come in as one, especially the glass. Wall were still individual, which is OK.

 

There was some mention of if the same material is assigned to say window frames and the mullions it should come through as one object. I cant seem to get this to work though.

 

It is ironic that since Max's conception it has been drummed into the user to control the object count and now that Revit has come along that mantra has been thrown out the window.

 

JHV

[NOsher]

I always export as "ACIS solids" and explode any blocks like Justin had mentioned. Not sure if this has any effect yet, but I've stopped linking the DWG into MAX/VIZ and just used the Import option. Typically by the time I'm rendering the project is nearly finished. Any last minute items that need to go into the rendering I export as individual DWGs by copy/paste into a blank project.

 

Other things to consider:

 

Turn off worksets (if worksets are enabled) that contain objects that will never be seen before exporting. [i.e.-electrical, plumbing, etc.]

 

I would be curious to see if there is any difference (polys) in topo generation between Revit & MAX/VIZ. Anyone done this?

[Razorback]

In the early days of max the link by layer will tidy up the process and attach objects by layer but this doesn't seems to work now the objects were still come in as individual objects.

 

Is this a bug?

[mindway69]

I have been trying to research the best workflow for Revit to Max and still be able to keep Revit material modifications made in max. This thread is a little old, so hopefully a new inquiry in it will spark some new developments.

 

Here is what I tried:

1. export .dwg out of revit as ACIS solids.

2. link .dwg to max with FLM, using revit presets. It still creates tons of objects with the same name, which can be problematic, but it sounds like there are workarounds that can be utilized if I explode the blocks in CAD).

3. selected a material created out of revit (kept the name it came in with), applied a decent bitmap and did a few tweaks to make it looks right, selected all objects with that material on it and applied a UVW map.

4. went back to revit, created a new wall in the same style and with the same material as the one I modified from revit, and re-exported the file as the same .dwg name.

5. went back to max, updated the link to see if the new wall would come in but with the modifications to the material already in effect.

 

What ended up happening was that the wall came in (woo hoo!) but the material that I had modified in the scene got screwy EVERYWHERE. Not just on the new wall.....al the objects that had it applied to it changed and looked like they had 2 materials on it....is it possible that it updated with another material name and that it conflicted with the modified one? The name of the material on the new wall I created was not the same as the previous one, which makes me think that the import/link process automatically generates a name with random numbers in it each time.

 

A co-worker of mine also suggested I look into FBX imports, but I haven't found much useful info about that yet. Any suggestions, experience or advice is greatly appreciated.

[Vince Paske]

Well, to be honest, I've found re-drawing the model using acad-solids, with my layer names (which are according to material, which is quite often more "complete" and thought through than Revit's) is more expedient than dealing with the mess of a Revit model. I find it's still faster than creating a model from 2d drawings and the amount of mistakes is less.

 

It's still a bummer that it doesn't work better, it seems like we are working backwards re-modeling, but then the Revit models aren't that great anyway. Doors, windows and some of the other finer details which make a good model aren't "there" yet in Revit models, so I'd have to re-do them anyway.

 

I think it's going to be a while before Autodesk resolves the FLM in Max to work well with Autocad and Revit. It seems buggy now with just regular dwg's with no Reveit imports. It still drops material assignments randomly on change geometry in the dwg file.

[mindway69]

So you do your modeling in CAD and not in 3DsMax? I'm not sure if I am understanding ACAD-solids correctly....

 

My model that I am experimenting with came in very well to 3ds actually, but working with the materials is where I want to find flexibility. I want to be able to make a material better in max since it is much more sophisticated than Revit in that regard, but hoped that if the name was the same as the one brought in from Revit that it would automatically apply the more sophisticated material to new geometry that is brought in when the link is updated. I selected the option in the FLM to keep scene materials....I'm poking around in the max user reference about revit and materials....thanks for the reply!

[Vince Paske]

Yeah, I still model in auto-cad using solids, with my own layer naming scheme (according to material). Then I W-block out my geometry, leaving behind the wonky Revit "solids" into a clean dwg file. I'll do some modeling in Max when quick changes toward the end of a project are needed, or when something that can't be done efficiently in auto-cad. I like it, I can just crank out stuff faster using the booleans in auto-cad.

 

I want to use Sketch-up more, but I'm waiting for my company to buy it.

 

I don't touch Revit, as far as I'm concerned it's a construction document program that by its nature as a parametric bim solution creates a 3d model. I think there is some lingering "intelligence" with anything brought into Max from Revit that is making your materials screwy.

[Tommy L]

Revit is a pain in the arse. For a Max person. I have to use some very large revit models which are created by the architects in the office. The advantyages to the architect are huge and the model is easily updated by the architect. But bringing the damn thing into max for every ammendment is torture.

[jamesB]

But bringing the damn thing into max for every ammendment is torture.

 

You don't have to bring in the whole model. If you are using revit 2008 and Max 9, then you can crop the model in revit and only export things you see in that perspective. Also you need to switch off everything else that you don;t see, like toilet boils, plumbing fixtures. etc. Also you can turn of the worksets that isn't visible in that view. For an exterior rendering, turn everything inside, that will not be visible, off.

 

BTW, you can also remodel everything if you find that easier.

[jamesB]

So you do your modeling in CAD and not in 3DsMax? I'm not sure if I am understanding ACAD-solids correctly....

 

My model that I am experimenting with came in very well to 3ds actually, but working with the materials is where I want to find flexibility. I want to be able to make a material better in max since it is much more sophisticated than Revit in that regard, but hoped that if the name was the same as the one brought in from Revit that it would automatically apply the more sophisticated material to new geometry that is brought in when the link is updated. I selected the option in the FLM to keep scene materials....I'm poking around in the max user reference about revit and materials....thanks for the reply!

 

If your model mostly consist out of bitmaps, then its best you apply those bitmap materials in revit. This way, when you update, the materials will stay in tack. In Max the only thing you have to do is modify the material. I personally don’t even use the UVW modifier. I just change the UVW settings in the material editor in max. From there on I just ad materials or special effects to the base material

[Tommy L]

You don't have to bring in the whole model. If you are using revit 2008 and Max 9, then you can crop the model in revit and only export things you see in that perspective. Also you need to switch off everything else that you don;t see, like toilet boils, plumbing fixtures. etc. Also you can turn of the worksets that isn't visible in that view. For an exterior rendering, turn everything inside, that will not be visible, off.

 

BTW, you can also remodel everything if you find that easier.

 

Aye, but that said, the real problem i have is that if I reload a 50 story curtain wall tower, I have to re-load every individual mullion and every pane of glass and every......

I have picked up some tips in this thread tho, so Im armed with some new knowledge for the next project;)

[jamesB]

Check out the webcast

 

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/oc/offer/typ?siteID=123112&id=9809299&section=1

 

 

some small tutorials on revit to 3ds max

 

http://www.adskhost.com/2007/03/Revit-Architecture-Resource-Center/product

[mindway69]

I continued to poke around and experiment and figured out something interesting. When I export the Revit model in ACIS format, the materials created in Revit do not come in correctly (wrong material assignment, all gray, etc).....however, when I export as polymesh format it does keep the material assignments and I have been experimenting with making changes to the revit material in max, then changing the revit file (add a wall with that material, etc) and then re-exporting and then updating the link in max. It has been working great. Now I just need to see how much I can manipulate the revit materials in max, play with UVW mapping, etc and see what it can retain after reloading the link. Thanks for everyone's feedback....I'll be sure to post any new interesting developments.

[Island J]

Revit to max is a breeze...for me. I use Vray so I am not as concerned about number of polygons. But I still take out the parts of the model that I dont need for the rendering.

 

I simply convert the materials to Vray materials and hit render. I manage the objects well in revit so that things that need different materials are done that way so when I export all i have to do is tweak the materials and hit render.

 

The fact that it may not group the objects into one layer isnt really that much of a problem for me since they have the right materials.

I also use file link. Works great.

[mindway69]

Island J,

 

Do you export your Revit model as ACIS Solid or as polymesh? In my experimenting so far I have been noticing that ACIS Solid seems to get screwy when I update a model. The materials get messed up and something will happen like one material will get assigend to almost everything. I have selected the option to use scene materials when I update the file and when I try it with an updated link in FLM. Thanks for your details on the process that's working best for you.

[Island J]

I haven't even tried the ACIS solid option. There is advanced tab when you are reloading the model into max. In there you will find options to keep the scene material definitions and assignments.

 

This is what I think is happening--if you link a model by object, an identity is assigned to each object and materials are assigned to that identity. If you then add a new object, then export and link, then max treats the new object as something with it's own identity and own material.

 

Try doing EVERYTHING by layer, material assignments and all, check the 2 boxes in the advanced tab for keeping materials and see if you still have those problems with reloading the model. Also check your export layer file for revit and make sure it is doing what you want it to.

 

I took a second look at it...If you change the material name then the new objects from revit keep the revit material. But when i didnt change the name then everything updated.

 

There was one time i tried to reload and some of the curtain wall panels loaded with the default glass and not the modyfied glass, then viz crashed.

[Wreck]

Yeah here at our office Revit is so heavy. I ONLY use a revit model if our deadline is smashed and using the existing revit structure is for some reason faster than modelling it in Max that day.

 

I usually import a model from Revit and don't include the core. Just the structure, the outer shell. Glass\Curtain Wall\Mullians, etc, foundation.

 

Once in max I usually keep the structure itself but I completely replace all the curtain wall or windows or complicated pieces that Revit has because it completely destroys your day once it's imported into 3D Studio.

 

Just in replacing 2-3 sections of a building from Revit items with max items can save me thousands and thousands of objects.

 

Revit *shakes head. Not good for visualization work.

[NOsher]

>>>>

I usually import a model from Revit and don't include the core. Just the structure, the outer shell. Glass\Curtain Wall\Mullians, etc, foundation.

 

Once in max I usually keep the structure itself but I completely replace all the curtain wall or windows or complicated pieces that Revit has because it completely destroys your day once it's imported into 3D Studio.

quote]

 

So essentially you bring along the windows to have a something to recreate from. Otherwise it seems pointless to bring them in the first time.

 

Its unfortunate that Revit windows are/can be exceptional for detailing and documenting that makes them very ineffecient for MAX. You can control visibilty settings in the individual families. Telling certain parts of the family to not display under "coarse". Maybe that would save a few steps in "reinventing the window" each time.

[Wreck]

I don't reinvent every window.

 

Honestly, I you have a 50 foot section of curtain wall, and Revit makes twenty-five 2' wide window panes and 25 more vertically, you have over 100 window panes and 4 mullians surrounding each.

 

I bring them along just to model from when I get into max but I can easily turn 100 panes of glass into one large flat plane in Max. There is no reason to drag the architectural information and sections that Revit needs to build backdoor number spreadsheets, etc.

 

I've turned a 2fps building in Max into a 60fps fluently moving structure. Revit is absolutely horrid for doing this. Even some CAD drawings out of Revit come over vastly large. All the splines become renderable and have to be shut off, but not before Max starts chugging.

[beestee]

I have had a little time with some Revit models recently, and I have come up with a few solutions to Revit file updates and the retaining of applied materials:

 

-We concluded, as has already been stated in this discussion, that Polymesh seems to be more stable in retaining material information from Revit than the Solids. I mention this for re-iteration because I have seen several online discussions that say to avoid Polymesh in favor of Solids.

 

-We bypass the "relink" errors by detatching and re-attaching the file. How do we keep our custom materials? By setting up a "physical material library" in the scene with each of the scene materials applied to cubes that sit out of sight within the scene. I am sure that this could be done with a script, and there may even already be one available that could handle this. The materials are named according to how they come in from Revit...this naming convention must be established and "set in stone" with the person providing the Revit file. In theory if you kept this physical library up to date with the materials that your Revit models could potentially come in with, you would never have to apply materials, and the setup for new finishes could be done before recieving the Revit export. We are using this method with much success in our VRay pipeline using VRay materials.

 

-Keep in mind that using the VRay Scene Converter on the Architectural materials will put a "vray" prefix to the material name, which will destroy the Revit material link, and you will lose any modification to that material if you relink the file.

 

-Our scenes are not too big yet, but we have the option in VIZ checked for "Create one scene object for each AutoCAD Architecture one." A few of our material juggling problems disappeared after turning that option on, but I cannot exactly explain why.

 

Using these methods, the designer is able to change their design within Revit, make me aware of potentially new finishes, then I am able to render within minutes of recieving the model if my VIZ native content does not require re-positioning. This is personally my first attempt at maintaining a link between Revit and VIZ and I feel that it has been very successful. I wish I had done a little online research from the beginning as I probably could have saved myself a few headaches, even just by reading through this single topic:)