Buying up a Macbook Pro...?

[James]

I've been dabbling with the idea of taking the plunge & picking up a MBP in the New Year.

 

My first experiences with PCs in my College days were with Macs & the early versions of ArchiCAD. Fell in love with them both... but having worked in a few offices since, I've way more experience in the Windows/AutoCAD environment now.

 

Anyway, now with the whole Intel Mac development & the dual boot (Windows/OSX) possibilities, I'm trying to find a reason NOT to pick up a MBP. Up until recently, I'd set my neart on a Dell M90 laptop... but they may have been replaced by a newer model by now.

 

I've been scanning the forums for a while, particularly paying attention to discussions regarding MBPs... I'm trying to weigh up all the pros & cons, but I'm open to alternatives.

 

I'll be using it for AutoCAD most of the time, with any 3D modelling in Sketchup... but given the time, I'd be interested in getting more experience in 3DS. It would also be the main machine I'd be using between work & home. Don't mind issues about weight too much, but the budget is set at around £2k (€3k).

 

All suggestions are welcome.

[eksg]

Ok...Ived bought my MBP last July,so it means it is still on the first generation.I'ved experienced a few problems with it,like it totally gets hot after sometime,and there is a whistling sound which i dunno where it came from.But asides from that,i dont have anything bad to say against MBP.(and im sure that they have done something with it by now).And as a testimonial for MBP, it was drop at least three times at about 3 feet high,and its still ok,asides from the dents it had from falling,wehehehe.(kids,dont try it at home).When it comes to performance,new MBP are about 40% faster than its ancestor.But price wise,it is much expensive to any laptop of the same specs,(or greater),at about 35%.But the benefit that you can get from it is that you can have two operating system on a single machine,means your getting the best of both worlds,(which seldom happens in real life,hehehe).So if you'll ask me,I'll recommend that you give it a try,you can still use your Windows programs and enjoy learning new stuff on Mac OS.Ciao!

[AJLynn]

The reason not to would be that the keyboard and touchpad aren't great in Windows. Also, it's expensive, but it's "designer". Aside from that it's great.

 

Edvard: could the noise you're experiencing be the LCD inverter? That can be fixed under warranty, talk to an Apple rep.

[James]

Can anybody suggest an alternative for comparison?

 

I can appreciate that the MBP is 'designer' like you suggest... but looking cool while surfing the net in my local coffee shop isn't a high priority. Don't get me wrong, I do love the look of it, but I'm interested in performance first.

 

Will I be taking a noticeable hit in performance over an equally priced alternative? Is Dell selling a replacement for the M90 (can't seem to find it on their site)?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

[AJLynn]

I don't think there is anything that significantly outperforms a 2.33GHz MBP - the 2.33 is the current high-end mobile chip. Dell does have the M90 with Core2 Duo (look under Small Business laptops) but when you bring it up to the same specs as the Apple it's actually a fair bit more expensive - with the 2.33, 2GB RAM, 160GB hard drive and higher res screen I'm seeing $3200. I'm pretty sure the ridiculous desktop chip Boxx and Alienware notebooks aren't available anymore, but there are some other nice Core2 notebooks out there, e.g.:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834117372

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834220106

 

I like the direction Asus is going in - I think it may provide a legit alternative to Apple. It's actually very similar to the MPB 17, down to the aluminum chassis, but no 2GB standard. But in general, when you're looking at similarly high-spec'ed machines (over 2GHz, 2GB standard, large hard drive, DVD burner, at least 1680x1050, good GPU with dedicated RAM, good service and build quality) you're in the price range of the MBP and it's perfectly reasonable to choose based on design.

[eksg]

The reason not to would be that the keyboard and touchpad aren't great in Windows. Also, it's expensive, but it's "designer". Aside from that it's great.

 

Edvard: could the noise you're experiencing be the LCD inverter? That can be fixed under warranty, talk to an Apple rep.

 

Actually,one reason I bought it is that its a designer thing.Like they said,when meeting clients, show your merchandise.(I dont give prints on preliminaries unless the deal is close,people here wont pay for downpayments unless they see something)Its something that would tell your clients without saying a word that this guy is not just any punk who knows how to do 3d,but an executive who knows what he's doing.(or something like that,watch "Cath me if you can",you'll get good pointers on selling yourself.hehe.)

 

AJlynn,thanks for the advise,Im planning to do that,but Im having a really hectic schedule that i cannot find time to walk in the apple store to have it checked.But that sound can only be heard if im in MAC OS,it doesnt make that sound on Windows,so i think its not on the hardware,or is it?Anyway,I'll still go there to have it checked. (you never ceased to amazed me how you could be so knowledgable on technical issues).

[James]

Thanks for the comments guys,

 

Hey AJ, what are your thoughts on the comparison between the Quadro card in the Dell M90 & the ATI Radeon X1600 in the MBP? Is it worth shelling out for the Quadro, of will the ATI card be sufficient for modelling. Does the Quadro only make a significant difference when rendering?

 

Cheers,

 

James.

[AJLynn]

The Quadro makes no difference when rendering unless you're using Gelato, and Gelato isn't good enough for architecture work, so it's only going to matter when modelling. The Quadro card will be faster, but the ATI is no slouch, especially now with Max9 wanting you to use DirectX. Also, I've always been very unimpressed with Dell's notebook build quality - I don't know anything about the M90, but I know a lot of people who have the M70 (it was the recommended computer for MArch students at SU last year) and it's built like a cheap piece of plastic - in that price range I'd expect something more like what Apple, Asus or HP use.

[Antisthenes]

to chime in here myself

 

I would say go with a Toshiba TabletPC r25 (customized) or something with the new core2duo anything BUT dell or apple!

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/srch.to?seg=HHO&stx=mode+matchall&sttHdg=&stk=All&stt=notebook&stt1=&stt2=&stt3=&s=25+4294966817&in_dim_srch=1

after going to a tablet myself(for 900$ about a year ago) I would never go back to anything else (but i would like to go up but am waiting to see what goes quad core first)

the power for it as a art tool is amazing, real precision of organic input, i still drooll over it

 

try M.O.I. if you get one (from the original maker of Rhinoceros) also ArtrageII pro

 

as far as quadro it makes a big difference when in real time working with openGL programs (like if you had your openGL driver in AutoCAD on) I've always run my home systems with softmoded Geforce cards and been happy.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=172822

 

I've set up many MBP's as bootcamped/parralled PC's but I would still rather always have a Tablet

[James]

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

Wise words. You read a lot of stuff on the Dell website about how the M90 is Autodesk certified, etc. Certainly gets your attention... but then you also need to consider things like build quality. I haven't seen an M90 first hand, so your comments are welcome.

 

Unless I run into a serious problem between now & Xmas, it looks like I'll be nailing my colours to the Mac flag in the New Year. One last thing, would there be any benefits to waiting a few months..? Are there any Apple developments (hardware/software/OS) in the pipeline that would justify putting off the purchase for a while?

[AJLynn]

There is a MacOS update planned but it's several months off, and I don't see any obvious changes for them to make to the hardware in the short term - the next Intel mobile release should be in April but all I've seen on it is an improvement to an 800MHz FSB - which is nice, but not worth waiting around for. No word on quad-core laptop chips. The Merom (mobile Core2) successor is code-named Penryn and is believed to be scheduled for mid-2007. That's about as far out, schedule wise, as you get in the "there's always going to be something better next month" field of CPUS, so I figure now is as good a time as any to buy something.

 

Jonas: why not an Apple? If tabletness isn't a priority, that is. BTW, you can softmod the MBP's Radeon card to FireGL v5200 in Windows - I've got mine set up this way with ATI Tray Tool for clock speed control (I use conservative numbers) and it works very well. Not as fast as my home setup, of course (Allendale 2.84GHz, ATI v5100, about 5500 in Cinebench) but very respectable for a laptop.

 

BTW, "Autodesk certified" means almost exactly nothing unless you are using it as a way to convince your company to buy you a better computer - "It's only an extra $400, which is very reasonable for an Autodesk certified system."

[AJLynn]

So, anybody else out there with a 17" MBP...

 

I think it's got an exploding battery issue. I haven't seen anything about it yet, but I'm pretty sure that's what I'm seeing here.

 

The battery has forgotten how to monitor its charge level - it says 40% but the battery dies, it says 98? then charges for 4 more hours, charge capacity in System Profiler varies between 2500 and 5500.

 

And now both flat sides have developed a concave warp, and the outer aluminum piece is coming off, because an internal component of the battery is growing. I am not making that up, something in there, quite solid, has increased in size and no longer fits in the housing.

 

Anybody else with a 17" model, keep an eye on the battery, the battery is model A1149. It's from an early point in production - I think it might have been the first 17 in Syracuse.

[James]

Hey guys,

 

Just logged on the give an update on the purchase... Got a green light on the funding for a 17" MBP (with off-the-shelf 160GB SATA & 2GB RAM). Should have it ordered before the end of the month. Thinking of ordering a second copy of XP at the same time (think I'll leave Vista until its out in the open for a while).

 

Any thoughts on the screen finish? Does the glossy widescreen offer any benefits or problems?

 

AJ,

 

Sorry to hear about the battery issue. Has this happened within the warranty period? I'll be interested in hearing if this is a common problem among users.

 

James.

[AJLynn]

I took it in and, no hassle, it's a warranty replacement. They didn't have one in stock so it's being expressed from Apple. Somebody on the Apple forum told me he'd been told it's a known problem with one batch of batteries from early in the production. It's an automatic replacement, but it's not a recall because the batteries don't explode, but it pushes up on the trackpad assembly so if you get the problem it needs to be replaced quickly.

 

As for screen finish - the original is the non-glossy. I think I prefer it. I've read that it gives you a somewhat more "accurate" color rendition, and also it doesn't get reflections or glare.

 

As for Windows, with 2GB RAM you wouldn't see a difference using a 64-bit vesion of Windows and Bootcamp only supports XP32 Home or Pro installed off a full version (not upgrade) CD with SP2 already on it. Who knows what Bootcamp will support with OSX 10.5, but for now I don't see any reason not to go with the most recommended Windows and you probably need a fresh copy.

[James]

I've been thinking about purchasing a new monitor at the same time as buying a MBP. The monitor I'm using is an old 19" CRT (just nearing the end of its life). It would be for hooking up the MBP at home. I'm planning on doing a lot more work from home in the near future.

 

So, question is... shiny Apple 20" Cinema Display (£529.00 inc. VAT... about the limit of my budget), or an alternative?

 

Again, it'll be mostly for CAD work (2D & 3D), with some Sketchup & 3DS.

 

Any recommendations...?

 

James.

[AJLynn]

The Apple displays are great, but I just can't see spending that kind of money when aside from the case design it's no different from a dozen other LCD models out there. I'd expect a non-Apple display with the same specs to sell for $300 or so.

[vizfx]

I think the answer is quite in front of us.

The truth is that I never seen until now (and I think everyone must agree) a head to head confrontation, at the same price for system, between PCs and Macs.

About the operating system it is already proven that the MacOS isn`t bulletproof.

If you want powerful PC systems then think about http://www.alienware.com.

Some more reasons are the availability of software and hardware devices for Windows compared to MacOS. Think about some extraordinary hardware like the one available from http://www.3dconnexion.com with amazing 3D navigation devices, http://www.artvps.com with extreme fast hardware rendering products or maybe http://www.ageia.com for physics and particle acceleration in 3D animation.

About the software everyone knows that for Windows it is a large pool, from high end professional to free open source like http://www.blender.org, http://www.nvidia.com/gelato and so on (the list is huge).

Finally let`s not forget how useful is the scroll mouse which can zoom, scroll, pan and even rotate with a single click in most of the 3D software.

I think the conclusion is quite obvious.

Best regards.

Mihai

[James]

An update...

 

Took the plunge & picked up the MBP I had my eye on yesterday. Tried not to be too disappointed when the girl behind the desk told me she didn't have any bags big enough for the box... had to carry it back to my car, trying hard to conceal my smugness.

 

Anyway... one small problem. When I eventually got it out of the box & played around with it a bit, noticed one side of the lid sits up ever so slightly than the other. Disappointing more than anything else. Found a few other people on forums who've had the same problem. Doesn't affect the performance in any way, but if I'm gonna pay that ammount of money for it, I want it exactly the way I expect.

 

I've phoned the store. They've promised to exchange it if returned within 14 days... so hopefully second time lucky!

 

Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

James.

[Macpod]

I wonder when the next MAJOR GPU upgrade will be though. the x1600 is abit dated. Should be a LED backlight macbook pro coming out soon.

 

they'll probably just chuck an x2600 in there which is 1600 for DX10, dont think it will be that much faster.

 

After using a powerfull desktop i don think i can be happpy with just a lapptop anymore. will probably get a macbook for client meetings and keep a high specced desktop at home.