Attracting 3D Artists?

[Malameel]

It is...

Cutting edge animation, hardware..........

Incredible talent, less this dude who wears boots and a hat once in while

 

The current work is an ArchVizist's wet dream...Both from a very challenging artisitic and technical side.

 

My insider thoughts. ... and Dallas ain't that bad. It's a large city in America, homgenous as all cities have become here in the last 2 decades.

 

C4D, Max...????? You got the stuff, it might be worth investigating further.

 

Merry Chistmas Mark

Wax

 

Merry Christmas WAX

Mark

[radii]

Mhhh..

 

it seems some posts were deleted from this thread ...

[Malameel]

I think you are right ihabkal, the pickings are slim in the US. Of course you make a statement like that, everybody jumps on you as if you are saying you are better and you may well as be. I know many Lebanese and I see many good talented people come from there for other fields, mostly engineers. However, I have not seen that many actually apply to me for my type of work.

However, there seems to be a huge pool of talent from Europe since that is where I get most applicants, and the most with good portfolios. Unfortunately, I cannot be in charge of helping people relocate. If you are already eligible and available then I hope people apply, but most leave that task up to me.

Since Cinema4D is not an issue, and I CLEARLY state any software will do, it seems the only issue is the relocation, and since I cannot change that, I will just have to continue the path I have, it maybe slow, but it does work.

M

[Malameel]

Mhhh..

 

it seems some posts were deleted from this thread ...

 

Did I missed some holiday drama?

M

[ihabkal]

well since you are already self promoting, can we see some of your work, I'm having alittle trouble locating it on my own...

 

I'm not self promoting. my clients are mostly from word of mouth, they're more friends than regular clients, so I offer my services to them without using spam or any advertisment usually. but you asked me to explain myself and I did, I didn't mean to advertise. But I did send you my portfolio in your private e-mail. One of my ex-employers still hires me to do renderings for him all the way from here so I don't have a very public image so not to cause him to worry about me being a competitor, just in case I ever wanted to go back and work for him. Sometimes being too talented and having a huge portfolio can be negative if you are looking for a job. people presume you're too expensive or too demanding. or too ambitious to work 9-5 in an office with someone ordering you around. I know the first thing an employer thinks when he sees my work, is, why does this Lebanese guy want to work for me unless he wants to take advantage of me and get a greencard through me? He is already doing fine on his own!. Which is really a problem for me because in reality I am very faithfull to anyone who would help me, and I don't put money up on a pedestal. It comes and goes but human relationship stay.

 

thanks,

Ihab

[radii]

...just the beginning

Somebody was wise enough to let the holiday spirit of brotherly love reign.

[vizwhiz]

Recently I posted an ad on CGarchitect looking for artists for a full time position in my studio. The ad came and went and practically nobody applied. (Today I went through and responded to the 3 that had any chance, so at least it wasn’t zero.) I would have thought I would get more responses. Granted I received several offers to outsource it by changing my pipeline and make sacrifices to hire people who didn’t follow the instructions in the ad, but I have an NDA so that is simply not possible anyway. However, that doesn’t stop the freelancers!

 

Now some of posts on the internet were for only Cinema4D so I knew that would limit my responses, but if I remember correctly, here I posted for general 3D artist. Since the ad expired, I cannot look it up. In hopes of increasing responses, what would limit one from responding to this ad so I can improve its effectiveness? (Thanks for any help.)

 

Here I have listed my current job posting:

 

well if ONLY 3 people responded To your 'original' ad you sure are getting a LOT more mileage out of This AD. opps i mean Thread.

 

you should offer To pay Jeff for a 2nd ad. but you mentioned That you are only Testing The water To see why more people hadnt responded before you would 'pay' for another ad.

 

has anyone else responded since This Thread has been running?

just my 2 neuros, i am not going To prolong using Jeff's generosity

 

Randy

[William Alexander]

 

well if ONLY 3 people responded To your 'original' ad you sure are getting a LOT more mileage out of This AD. opps i mean Thread.

 

you should offer To pay Jeff for a 2nd ad. but you mentioned That you are only Testing The water To see why more people hadnt responded before you would 'pay' for another ad.

 

has anyone else responded since This Thread has been running?

just my 2 neuros, i am not going To prolong using Jeff's generosity

 

Randy

 

Randy...

Normally Don't have any issues with you or Jeff or most araound here....but this pay to advertise/employment has turned into a total crock of BS. I'll never dictate to Jeff or anyone an oppurtinity to turn a few coins or even make very generous income from a website/forum. But these paid adds and system really have turned me away totally from even bothering to hit places like CGtalk/society and am totally unipressed with the system here. Not to say it's not worth attempting, just not worth a hill of beans to use for me...on either side of the employment coin.

 

Guess what I'm saying is... it's does not seem to be working well. Mr Alameels predicament not widthstanding, though I certianly would have expected a bit more from CGA. Many valid points previously stated in this thread too It really seemed to be more of a benefit to the community when it was just a free thread, imho.

 

Just want to make clear... I have no beefs with turning some cash to support the site, but this time it really "seems" to have hurt the community more than it has benefited us...and I'm a still a full blown supporter of and very capitalist in my views

 

Looking forward to getting home, down south

WDA

[Malameel]

 

well if ONLY 3 people responded To your 'original' ad you sure are getting a LOT more mileage out of This AD. opps i mean Thread.

 

you should offer To pay Jeff for a 2nd ad. but you mentioned That you are only Testing The water To see why more people hadnt responded before you would 'pay' for another ad.

 

has anyone else responded since This Thread has been running?

just my 2 neuros, i am not going To prolong using Jeff's generosity

 

Randy

 

It is a thread, but I am sure if you want to find a conspiracy, you can make one up.

 

I have received a wealth of knowledge from this thread and as I have said before, I know of what I should post, how I should word things, and where should my money go. I have gotten ZERO responses from this thread which furthers that this would be an ineffective way to search for applicants much like my ad. (People posting here is a lot different from people applying.) Why should I pay for a second ad when the first didn’t work? I guess I should be asking for a refund. (Not something I am asking for nor implying that I want.)

 

By your logic Randy, I should just be quite after this lost and not search for an answer? Not a good business practice.

 

The reason for this thread IS to figure out if another ad would be worth it here or would I get the same results. The responses are clear; the users here tend to be freelancers. That is not bad nor good, just an observation.

M

[alexg]

Hi Malameel

I think the low response from CGA might be because your website shows more of tv commercials than arch-viz (which is more of CGA's forumers interest).

 

Nevertheless, I have also received similar response from my ads on other forums. Seems like the trend is now moving towards freelancing. Most of responses I received are counter-ads for outsourcing, and not genuine interest in the job as staff. Only a handful are serious applications.

 

It is interesting to see how the other job board ads are doing.

 

BTW, merry xmas everyone!

[Fran]

That is best, especially if there is not enough info. Personally I hate getting unsolicited emails, but a few times I myself didn't have enough info make the right decision upfront. For instance, if you post on a board your resume but not if you are wiling to relocate, then that leaves the door open. (I do not know what you have posted in the past and you at least sound professional.)

At least in my posts it clearly says no outsourcing so it gets old. However, why will others try to change me into a situation I clearly do not want nor advertise.

 

No, I haven't advertised or posted my cv to any boards or forums. I also have never solicited anyone offering my services, except when I sent some brochures out to local architects in 1999 (VA). I heard crickets chirping and a dog barking in the distance. LOL. I certainly am not annoyed when people contact me offering jobs.

 

My regret in those situations is if I can't offer another lead to them to help them out in cases where they need someone in their office. I have done so at times, but never found out whether they were a love match or not. I can't imagine someone in any type of managerial position without being in the office.

[Ernest Burden III]

Its quite obvious that there is something to the issues of the majority of your work samples (whether or not they are architectural in nature) and the location of the position.

 

I wouldn't mind expanding the scope of the projects I work on--so the first isn't so much a problem for me, but I am not someone who would be interesting in relocating to Dallas. Now if you want to move the position to New York, you'll see a lot more resumes, maybe even mine. (OK, I don't have a resume).

 

What I find disturbing in this thread is the hint of hostility towards someone for offering a position to our community. Its not a matter of weighing the virtues of being a freelancer versus a salary-man, its just a job offering. Let's not discourage companies from offering open positions here by giving them a hard time about it if the position isn't perfect for each of us. I hope it is perfect for someone here. Sure there are ways to improve the listing to get appropriate responses, but in the end I would just say thank you for considering the cgarchitect community when you are hiring.

[Charles Gaushell]

Aside from anything personal about your posting, I'll share our experiences at Paradigm Productions.

 

There are 11 of us full time here. Everyone relocated to the Memphis area.

 

We too require everyone to work on site. I know that freelancing works for some, but not for the way we work on multiple projects (large and small) as well the team environment and interactivity - freelancers for us only work when on a very specialize modeling task - and that still creates challenges. In 2006 alone we have contracted over 150 projects all over the US, England and Mexico. It is too difficult to coordinate with freelancers.

 

In my opinion, the talent base is limited by:

 

1. willingness to relocate - that is for every market. people have preferences. i have no desire to live in LA (even though i lived there as a child)

 

1b. ability to relocate - work visa issues make it tough. we've gone that route and it is a real pain and doesn't help when I make an offer and need someone within 30 days.

 

2. software - unless you are a max house, the pickings will be even slimmer (we use Lightwave 3d). Though anyone can be trained on software if willing.

 

3. skill - there is a lot of talent out there. but if it takes someone a month to do a rendering, then that hobbiest will have a hard time being useful. Thus the talent is trumped by being productive. This is a business afterall. I find overall that the available talent base is small and further limited by work visa issues.

 

3b. specific skills - finding people that really understand architecture and interior design is tough as well. we do a ton of animation work and I'm amazed at how few of the arch viz people know how to do that well - very different than a rendering touched up in photoshop.

 

4. attitude - i don't care how talented someone is. if they have a bad attitude, are not team players, and/or have a bad work ethic - I don't want them. with a good attitude, a lot of skills can be refined.

 

5. unethical competition - like it or not, there is companies out there that are basically sweat shops paying grossly low wages and using illegal software to make money. the good news is that the better long term clients have no desire to work with those companies. i don't see them impacting Paradigm's work at all. I get contacted by several per week wanting us to outsource - that isn't going to happen. I'm not going to perpetuate those working environments.

 

Good luck. It is a slow and painful process to find the right people. I would advise making sure you put your best foot forward too. You are marketing your company to potential employees as well.

 

Make sure your work and work environment are open for discussion with them.

[vizwhiz]

Malameel

 

Take 2

 

after a better nights sleep i Think i have a different perspective

reflecting what EBIII said about offering greater job possibilities

 

seeing That This Thread is somewhat out of The normal arch viz range

what about starting a Thread That incorporated arch viz with more of

 

multi-media Tv, video, video editing etc??

 

Hi Malameel

I think the low response from CGA might be because your website shows more of tv commercials than arch-viz (which is more of CGA's forumers interest).

 

alexg

 

maybe a Thread along This lines could evolve into its own complete Forum

 

This might expand job possiblities, and might provide useful information

for Those who are looking into expanding Their horizons using 3d cg for

 

other adventures

 

i am sure That There are several peoples here who do other Than arch viz

 

just an idea, i would be interested if you were To start a Thread and see where it goes

 

Thanks

 

Randy

[William Alexander]

i am sure That There are several peoples here who do other Than arch viz

 

But the ad is for primairly archviz, LOL Well I do both and have already taken a job, becasue I asked questions of my future employer and actually got answers... it was a good move, even though freelancing would have been my preference at that time. Well that and things changed a bit in my life so I wasn't quite so 'tied' down .

 

I guess if you can only do archviz and consider 'commercials' unrelated to "ArchViz" blow it off...it'll give those upcoming artists who see the connection more oppurtunities

 

WDA

[3DIFX]

Oh my aching eyes! Just finished reading the entire post. Some very interesting points here. Well Mark, if you are looking for someone of the architectural visualization persuasion - I believe you have posted your job opening in the right place. Until the world wakes up and realizes that Architectural Visualization is really a career, I mean how many other places out there can you post it. Just keep your chin up and I believe the right person will come your way. Last time I checked geographical location had no effect on whether a person is talented or not. There is a lot of talent out there in the world, even in Dallas. Don't knock the freelancers and freelancers don't knock him, you never know when you might need each other. Peace.

[3DIFX]

Ihabkal - I had forgotten to mention that I did not get the feeling that you were self-promoting at all. Just telling it like it TIZ (concerning your assessment of your own talent that is-since the question was put to you). Even with all of your accomplishments, I sense a humility and sincerity in your communication. I like that.

[ihabkal]

thank you, I appreciate that.

[Malameel]

Thanks for the helpful and understanding replies.

 

I guess it all came down to timing. I got more hits yesterday, the day after Christmas, than I did the whole time I was posting on the various boards. Not really any from here still though which I find odd (mostly from CGTalk but I do hope to find at least one more artist soon. Of course now that I opened up to allow any software, more people are now acceptable to the position. I will have a good day tomorrow returning emails.

 

Maybe many just wanted to wait till after the holidays? I do not know. Of course, the requests for freelancing were up as well, but at least some good responses.

 

Of course, it maybe more bait and switch. “Oh I didn’t know you actually meant that I had to move... Why? I have a dial up connection. Arrgh.” Of the stories I could tell… but I will save that for another day…

M

[Malameel]

Oh my aching eyes! Just finished reading the entire post. Some very interesting points here. Well Mark, if you are looking for someone of the architectural visualization persuasion - I believe you have posted your job opening in the right place. Until the world wakes up and realizes that Architectural Visualization is really a career, I mean how many other places out there can you post it. Just keep your chin up and I believe the right person will come your way. Last time I checked geographical location had no effect on whether a person is talented or not. There is a lot of talent out there in the world, even in Dallas. Don't knock the freelancers and freelancers don't knock him, you never know when you might need each other. Peace.

 

Thanks. I agree. I do think I am in the right place and there will always be those that complain that they do not meet the requirements of the job. The requirements are not invented by me, I have a NDA that has requirements, the job specs have requirements, and the way my team works has their own requirements. I just post them. However, I shouldn't have to rummage through freelancers speeches to get what I posted I want to begin with. Oh well, life moves on.

M

[manta]

M

 

See that's where you're wrong, this is a Discussion Forum, not your own private message board, sorry I don't mean to sound like a pr**k, but that is the cold hard truth...

[Malameel]

See that's where you're wrong, this is a Discussion Forum, not your own private message board, sorry I don't mean to sound like a pr**k, but that is the cold hard truth...

 

That is where you are wrong; this is a discussion despite your view. I guess that is the cold hard truth. Or is that a matter of perspective? However, since I am the only person that knows my intentions, maybe, just maybe, I would know more about me than you do. It is a sad day that socializing through the internet is treated so definitive.

 

Maybe you are telepathic? Maybe you know more about me than I do. WOW!

 

I have discussed a problem as an employer who received unsatisfied results with his paid posting here. Instead of getting qualified responses from the paid listing, I received mostly unqualified freelancers trying to change my workflow which is very frustrating.

 

Or I get you... one who complains that I ask why.

 

The smart business person succeeds because he figures out why things happen, tweak the possible parameters and moves on the best way possible. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Maybe… troll?

 

Based on this discussion I want to see how to change my ad to post again a paid ad, but if these are the responses I will get, responses like yours, then forget it. I might as well stick to the free ads where I would get similar responses without losing money. Well, at least CGTalk is where I am getting most of my responses and it is a paid ad. The rest I get from Craigslist and Backpage. Both free.

 

I am sorry. I didn’t know that an employer cannot have a discussion about his ad.

M

[Ernest Burden III]

See that's where you're wrong, this is a Discussion Forum, not your own private message board...

 

I'm not sure he wasn't referring to emailed responses he received. But even for this forum, the thread is about how to tune a job listing to get appropriate applicants. The position is not a freelance contract, its for salaried employment. We can discuss the differences, but it does get away from the thread topic.

 

I'm concerned that the next company that thinks about offering jobs to us reads this and says 'no thanks, I don't want to be criticized for not being able to consider sub-contractors'.

[manta]

 

That is where you are wrong; this is a discussion despite your view. I guess that is the cold hard truth. Or is that a matter of perspective? However, since I am the only person that knows my intentions, maybe, just maybe, I would know more about me than you do. It is a sad day that socializing through the internet is treated so definitive.

 

Maybe you are telepathic? Maybe you know more about me than I do. WOW!

 

I have discussed a problem as an employer who received unsatisfied results with his paid posting here. Instead of getting qualified responses from the paid listing, I received mostly unqualified freelancers trying to change my workflow which is very frustrating.

 

 

 

Or I get you... one who complains that I ask why.

 

The smart business person succeeds because he figures out why things happen, tweak the possible parameters and moves on the best way possible. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Maybe… troll?

 

Based on this discussion I want to see how to change my ad to post again a paid ad, but if these are the responses I will get, responses like yours, then forget it. I might as well stick to the free ads where I would get similar responses without losing money. Well, at least CGTalk is where I am getting most of my responses and it is a paid ad. The rest I get from Craigslist and Backpage. Both free.

 

I am sorry. I didn’t know that an employer cannot have a discussion about his ad.

M

 

I'm speaking of this Forum, and specifically this thread, and you as an employer or not, can discuss anything you want, you simply can't dictate where it goes or who says what...and what was all that about knowing you, very strange ?

[Adehus]

Mark-

 

No disrespect intended, but I think you may be, in effect, scaring off the people you're hoping to lure. I know your frustrations are legitimate, but airing them so emphatically in the midst of the people you're looking to as potential employees is probably a bit counterproductive.

 

In an attempt to be constructive, let me offer a few thoughts:

 

- Your site doesn't show much work related to archviz- and whether you feel it's fair or not, it's not a point in your favor. A prospective employee's hope that they might work amongst accomplished people within their field is not conveyed.

 

- The Cinema4D issue is not as minor as you might think! Most skilled CG folks like to see their work through to the end, have evolved considerable skills in executing renderings, and have invested a lot of time in mastering their rendering app of choice. Furthermore, for many, rendering is the most rewarding part of the viz process. I'm not saying this to suggest that you need to alter your pipeline (believe me, I'm not applying) but don't fool yourself into thinking that this isn't an issue for those who are not C4D fluent. For most people in the field, saying C4D rendering is a requirement (even though you're not suggesting that they themselves have to do it) will be interpreted to mean you want a C4D pro. Your insistence that C4D rendering is not an issue suggests that you don't really 'get' how CG types tick.

 

Bearing the above in mind, a significant number of people may interpret your ad like this:

 

-Have to relocate

-Not so comfortable with the level of work your firm is currently doing

-Won't be able to render my own models(!)

 

So... that's the downside... what's the upside?