ASAI contest entry deadline 22 has been extended To Friday 12/07

[vizwhiz]

The ASAI contest 22 entry deadline has been extended To Friday 12/07

 

i noticed That The 623 area code is in Arizona They must have moved

so i called These people just yesterday and This is what They Told me

 

just some info

 

and it is open To CG also

 

**

 

randy

[Devin Johnston]

The problem with this contest is you have to pay to enter it, I did that once and I'll never do it again. Also if you look at the winners of last years competition most them were done old style (not CG) so it makes me think their more interested in traditional art work than CG stuff.

[Scott Erstad]

Not so my friend, not so. Many selected images are in fact digitally based. It doesn't matter the media, it is the message anyway. this year the highest honer was bestowed upon a digital piece, see the article on this site about Dennis Allain. Simple room studies would not suffice. These are awards for illustration, not modeling or painting ability.

 

Digital realism, digital work posing as traditional style, digital and traditional blended together are all well represented here. The membership fee is easily realized in exposure to the world. Lots of folks use this a way to identify and then to contact an illustrator, should that work be of a professional level.

 

Just a thought. Old style? Hmmmmm.

 

Scott Erstad

http://www.andersonillustration.com

[Devin Johnston]

The cost to enter, in our studios experience, is easily realized in exposure to the world. Lots of folks use this a a way to identify an illustrator.

 

Old style? Hmmmmm.

 

Scott Erstad

http://www.andersonillustration.com

 

What exposure do you receive; the only images that are published are the AIP winners? Unless you win every time you enter I don't see how you get your money's worth.

 

As for those that win, out of the 60 images that made it into AIP21 about 10% of them are what I would consider CG the rest are hand drawn or have that hand drawn look.

 

We may be disagreeing about what CG is, the line has definitely been blurred due to the use of PhotoShop and other 2D computer drawing programs. It is possible to create "old style" images on the computer so perhaps I should have said that it seems like the ASIA is more interested in traditional hand drawn or hand painted imagery.

[Ernest Burden III]

It is possible to create "old style" images on the computer

 

Not that there's anything wrong with it!

 

ASIA is more interested in traditional hand drawn or hand painted imagery.

 

That has been my experience.

[Brian Cassil]

We may be disagreeing about what CG is, the line has definitely been blurred due to the use of PhotoShop and other 2D computer drawing programs. It is possible to create "old style" images on the computer so perhaps I should have said that it seems like the ASIA is more interested in traditional hand drawn or hand painted imagery.

 

Exept for the part about Asians I would agree. ASAI does seem to promote traditional style much more than photorealism or stylized CG.

[Devin Johnston]

Not that there's anything wrong with it!

 

 

Absolutely not, I wasn't commenting on the art it's self only that the ASAI seems to favor it when choosing winning art work for its competitions.

[jkletzien]

Actually, ASAI has judges that come from outside the society every year, and they - not ASAI officials - judge the results. Some years it favors hand drawn pieces, and some years it does not - depends on the judges.

 

"Unless you win every time you enter I don't see how you get your money's worth."

 

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that your fees support the only organization that consistently pushes our craft in front of architects as an art form unto itself, and worthy of consideration as such. Not just a bunch of button/pencil pushers who wouldn't know how to do a decent image without the computer or architect's wisdom guiding their every move - which is how many architects I fear see us.

 

For me I treat it as a donation every year to an organization that sees my profession in the light that I want to see it, and the way I want my clients to see it. It really doesn't matter whether I get in or get exposure - what matters is that the organization exists, and that it speaks the message I am unable to because I'm too busy working.

[Devin Johnston]

That is definitely a good thing and I wasn't trying to debate whether or not the ASAI is good or bad as an organization, in fact that is one of the reasons I joined it. My point is that from my experience they tend to favor traditional architectural illustration as is evident from their last competition.

[jkletzien]

All due respect devin...you told scott it wasn't worth it and I can totally understand that if the agenda is your own marketing. But I wanted to make the point that the status of the profession helps all of us a lot, probably as much as individual accolades. ASAI provides both - but I enter every year because of the former.

 

As far as traditional media being favored...the preponderance of people who enter are traditional artists, so it doesn't surprise me that they get the majority of slots. Moreover it should be pointed out that most artists who practice traditional media have been at it a lot longer than most digital artists and have had more time to refine their eye - I do earnestly believe most visual artists get better with age. It should also be noted that the juries that typically pick the show (they vary year to year honest - it isn't ASAI that picks the images) are accomplished artists/architects (aka they are in their 50's and 60's) and are in a demographic that probably looks at images differently than the people on this forum.

 

Plus, if a digital artist gets in against all these odds - don't you feel even better about your own work?

[Scott Erstad]

Well said Jon, support those that support you. And I certainly can appreciate your point of view as well Devin.

 

To clarify, when I wrote of exposure, I was referring to the http://www.asai.org as a means to offer the world a way to identify a service provider, not the catalog, which is more of a peer group thing in my mind. Each member is allowed a portfolio page. Speaking of my firm, we know it works because we ask folks how they have come upon us - referral, word of mouth, and so forth. A decent percentage have in fact said the ASAI illustrators page. This tells me a a pure lead generator, it works. Fees realized due to the exposure FAR outweighs the membership cost in our experience.

 

Further, my singular experience in engaging these folks in Chicago recently was worth the cost alone. We are all typically head down, and working hard, it was refreshing to meet peers outside of forums such as this. People were willing to speak openly and share, and made me feel welcome to be sure.

 

I find it troubling that we, as illustrators, tend to define ourselves through medium, or rendering engine, or whatever. The medium or technique simply doesn't matter. We provide real service and a real opportunity to benefit society by exposing bad design or good, by allowing those that cannot visualize to experience possibility, truly affecting for the better the end users experience. A worthy craft as they say.

 

Cheers,

Scott

[Brian Cassil]

Plus, if a digital artist gets in against all these odds - don't you feel even better about your own work?

 

However, I believe Devin's point was that if you have to PAY to enter, and the odds are stacked against those working with digital medium, then there seems little incentive to enter. I have to agree.

 

I must say that there does seem to be a bias towards watercolor/etching/gauche renderings in the ASAI. All of their promotional material, splash pages, book covers, and most of the awards are of those traditional styles. NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THOSE TECHNIQUES! But there is also equal merit in digital work and it seems to be put on a lower plane in certain circles of architectural artistry.

[vizwhiz]

well, hell.

 

i hate To go Off-Topic especially since i started This Thread

 

but

 

a sudden idea just occured To me how To do Two(2x) birds with just one Stone

 

its been a while.... since we had any kind of Arch Viz contest here at cga

and so how about having an Arch Viz contest and The winner gets his/hers

 

membership PAID into The ASAI society

That way They can enter The contest!

 

and even MORE important someone else (us at cg) will pay Their dues

just Trying To combine The best of both worlds, This could be a win-win

 

situation for all concerned

 

The Timing on This should be a minimum of 6 months prior To The ASAI contest deadlines

 

just an idea

 

Randy

working at home can be hazardous To your health. DONT TRY THIS at HOME.

[John Dollus]

Personally, I feel the ASAI is biased toward art, not technique and there is no 'stacking of the odds' against any medium. I see a tremendous amount of digital work produced that looks realistic and is very impressive but I wouldn't hang it in my living room. On the other hand, pretty much all of the winners selected by the ASAI every year (traditional and digital) would be welcome hanging above my chaise where the pipe and smoking jacket reside.

[Sawyer]

Personally, I feel the ASAI is biased toward art,

 

Yup! I agree that most of the resent postings in the catalogue are "traditional" but they are awsome! I salute ASAI for putting together a pretty nifty collection of artists. They crossed the line from good to inspirational and that is worth supporting.

[jkletzien]

However, I believe Devin's point was that if you have to PAY to enter, and the odds are stacked against those working with digital medium, then there seems little incentive to enter. I have to agree.

 

Yes, and I did not disagree. My point was that our mutual interests are more important to me than who wins.

 

Take the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences - they hand out Oscars to the winners, but what is the oscars really except a self deifying evening telling the world that Gladiator is, against all appearances, "Best Picture" of the year. Yes, the winner benefits from winning, but I would posit that the film industry benefits more as an aggregate because annually we're reminded of what a noble important calling this is - so we'll be happy to pony up 10 bucks, and wait outside all night to see the genius that is Phantom Menace.

 

ASAI's role of evaluating and mounting an exhibition is crucial to this field if we are to play this same game of declaring to the rest of the world that what we do is highly skilled, deserving of being called art, and deserving of being paid reasonable wages. I think it helps all of us, and so I support it, though I may lose.

[Devin Johnston]

That all makes since if the "world" was watching what the ASAI was doing but in reality I suspect that the only people that know anything about it are the members and a few enthusiasts who watch what that organization does. The point being that even among architects the ASAI isn't well known and the fact is that more and more "traditional media" is being replaced by CG. My problem with the ASAI as an organization is they don't do a good enough job promoting them selves and they limit the kinds of people who would enter their competitions by favoring "traditional media" over "new media". If you’re going to make a call for entries to a competition on a computer graphics web site your competition should reflect fairness in regards to that media which it clearly doesn’t.

[Ernest Burden III]

declaring to the rest of the world that what we do is highly skilled, deserving of being called art, and deserving of being paid reasonable wages. I think it helps all of us, and so I support it, though I may lose.

 

Early on I entered a few of the AIP contests. I've been included and I've been excluded. Neither case made any noticeable difference in my workload. But that was never the point. I have no problem with the AIP, my problems are with the ASAI.

 

My feeling is that the organization suffers from a bad case of the airs. There have been many good people involved, and in particular Jon Kletzien. Your year as president, Jon, was the most productive I've seen in 20 years. But then things went back to normal, which isn't favorable to new ideas. ASAI has its roots in an academic mindset, and that's where it has remained, for the most part. That's not bad, per se, just not keeping up with the profession. I spent the first ten years trying to work with ASAI (ASAP then) to make it more open and inclusive, the next ten years I ignored it and turned my efforts to the New York Society of Renderers, which is a much looser and flexible group. But not national in scope, not to mention international. The profession needs an international group. This has been discussed here many times at length, so I'm not going to keep on that point now.

 

What we have at the moment is a self-fulfilling prophesy. ASAI isn't welcoming to CG artist, the thinking goes, so very few of us submit work, ergo the show tilts heavily to physical media. Around and around we go.

 

If the AIP is going to be the only major vehicle for getting member's work attention, the show should be open to all members to submit a certain number of pieces (one, two, whatever) as part of membership. The costs should be built into the dues. So should having a page on the website for every member. When I started the NYSR site in '98 that's what I did. Back then very few renderers had their own sites, so it was very useful and open to ALL members without additional charge. Has ASAI adopted that policy yet? They might have, I just don't know. It was about promoting the artists over the organization.

 

I have nothing against ASAI, I just can't beat my head against a wall with them, so I gave up trying. I may still rejoin, but only with some structure changes in the organization.

[vizwhiz]

how about ASAI-CG?

 

or

 

CGA-AI?

 

should we start our own group? Then?

 

just an Idea

 

since CGA already has its own yearly contests

and has a well developed database of CG illustrators

 

who participate frequently, Then why not do our own Thing?

 

just another idea, easier said Than done, i know

but it might be well worth our while To do something

 

for our own selfs

 

anybody got game?

 

Randy

[Devin Johnston]

I can see where having the ASAI and CGA tied together would be a benefit for ASAI but I'm not sure what they would bring to the CGA community.

[Brian Cassil]

Yup! I agree that most of the resent postings in the catalogue are "traditional" but they are awsome! I salute ASAI for putting together a pretty nifty collection of artists. They crossed the line from good to inspirational and that is worth supporting.

 

And now bringing us back to the topic of the thread... have you entered any of your work for this year?

 

What we have at the moment is a self-fulfilling prophesy. ASAI isn't welcoming to CG artist, the thinking goes, so very few of us submit work, ergo the show tilts heavily to physical media. Around and around we go.

 

If the AIP is going to be the only major vehicle for getting member's work attention, the show should be open to all members to submit a certain number of pieces (one, two, whatever) as part of membership. The costs should be built into the dues. So should having a page on the website for every member.

 

Amen. So how does the election process work for ASAI? If it were a nomination process I might join just so I could make a nomination or two.

[Sawyer]

And now bringing us back to the topic of the thread... have you entered any of your work for this year?

 

No, I am a bit intimidated by the quality I see from last year which I did enter. And I am pretty broke right now waiting for a payment.

[jkletzien]

Has ASAI adopted that policy yet?

 

Yes, they have, during my year as president (thanks for the kind words Ernest).

 

"My problem with the ASAI as an organization is they don't do a good enough job promoting them selves"

 

Devin, on that point you and I agree. That is their major failing, but it is a volunteer organization, and resources are thin. I spent a lot of my time in 2004 trying to change this, but the organization needs volunteers, other wise it is a self fulfilling prophecy as Ernest points out - potential members don't join becasue they have some legitimate gripe with the organization, and therefore the organization stays small and incapable of addressing the gripe because its membership is small.

 

"ASAI isn't welcoming to CG artist"

 

There are certain ASAI members who display their ignorance by cutting down digital art (and they have gotten an earful from me), but I think probably 1/3-1/4 of the members are digital artists, and much of the show is in fact digital. I know for a fact it is not institutionally anti digital because the judges are different every year, and there is nothing in their brief about preferring one media over another (I can forward it to you if you'd like). I think folks here need to realize that the organization is charged with assembling a show that is representative of a full range of expression, so clearly there is not going to be as much photo realistic work as there is on the open market place. In other words, you're right Ernest, it isn't about documenting the newest technologies, or tracking the marketplace, and I believe the exhibition in general is the better for it.

 

I still come back to my original point, that regardless if anyone is watching; It is important to all of us that there is an annual juried show of architectural illustration, that is open to all media. And no one else provides that, so for me the choices are...either start another one with all that headache and trying to get traditional artists to come on board, or support ASAI (dues, entry fees, volunteerism) in order to help it address some of its deficiencies.

 

It ain't perfect (like the democratic party, the AIA, the AARP or...any other group one might consider joining) but it provides something I think is really valuable for all of us so I would prefer to put my smaller issues with it aside(the members who are jerks about photorealism, it's lack of publicity) and pay my dues which are a very very small part of my annual budget.

[CRD]

I'm a digital artist and a member of ASAI and art of the caliber on display in the AIP is what I aspire to, but I wish that more of it was digital. I think that most of the work in Architectural Illustration is done in 3D these days, but that doesn't mean that 3D is best.

 

In Dallas there is a competition called KRob that I used to try to get my work displayed in, but I was only successful once. I bring up KRob because it's a competition that's on the other end of the spectrum. They encourage "exploration and innovation in unique techniques" which leads to most pieces being 3d or digital in some way. The problem is that they end up being hobby pieces, not commercial art pieces, which is what most of us are hired to do. Check out the winners from the past year at http://www.krob06.com/ and tell me how many of those were shown to a client. Great work, just not sellable.

[aaron-cds]

I'm a digital artist and a member of ASAI and art of the caliber on display in the AIP is what I aspire to

 

Me too I entered for the first time this year. We'll see how it does. http://www.vrayelite.com/Gallery/gallery_aaron_coon.htm