Why does the "daylight system" turn off my interior lights? This is frustrating.

[innerdream]

Man - I have to say I learned Cinema 4D before tackling Max and the lighting in 4D is so much more intuitive.

 

Why is the daylight turning off my fricken lights!

 

HELP.

[innerdream]

Hi Robert,

 

I am not sure how C4D users are but I'm not certain that

your approach is the best way to get Max users to help out!

 

I can Guarantee that like anything, once you understand HOW

they work, you will find that Max lights are incredibly easy to

work with.

 

You need to provide some insight into how you have set your scene

up? Why for instance are you using a daylight system 'and' interior

lights, what is the effect you are shooting for/

 

Regards

Bri

 

Well, gee this forum hasn't been the best experience so far so I'll leave it at that.

 

My scene can be viewed in the WIP forum or by clicking on this link http://www.innerdreamrecords.com/IMAGES/home-5b.jpg

 

I have the interior scene lit the way I want for the most part and I am trying to add a light coming through the window to do a daylight version of the scene. All I want to do is have sunshine coming through the window - now that shouldn't require an advanced degree!

[manta]

Well, gee this forum hasn't been the best experience so far so I'll leave it at that.

 

Hmm... I just went and read all your previous posts, and didn't see anything that would make you say that, just wondering what it was that turned you off so much, at times certain people can be quite sarcastic, but I just ignore them and take what I can get from the info posted...

[innerdream]

Hmm... I just went and read all your previous posts, and didn't see anything that would make you say that, just wondering what it was that turned you off so much, at times certain people can be quite sarcastic, but I just ignore them and take what I can get from the info posted...

 

Incomplete answers and non answers. My very first post stated that I was a newb, I have also posted the same request for info on lighting three different times in three different threads albeit worded differently. Take a look at my first thread in WIP I asked posters two question neither replied and then asked the same question about lighting in a third thread again no answer.

 

In any event, I have one day left on my demo of 3D Max if someone would like to help that would be great.

[manta]

Well as far as the daylight system goes, I never used it, just use direct lights to shine through windows...

[innerdream]

Well as far as the daylight system goes, I never used it, just use direct lights to shine through windows...

 

 

Thank you - I will do that.

[vizwhiz]

which version of max are you using?

 

maybe a more specific question could lead To a more specific answer(s)

max9 has a different way of Treating exterior/interior lighting if you are

 

using mental ray

 

did you mention which rendering engine That you are using?

max9 mental ray has some cool Tutorials for Interior Lighting

 

randy

[innerdream]

Hi robert,

 

Gotta say the tone of your wording gives me pause when

making replies in forums. These forums are populated by

a lot of people who have worked very hard to hone their

craft which has meant long hours of trying ideas and test

renders, we certainly should never feel that we are 'owed'

an answer just because we post up a question.

 

Anyway, enough soap box stuff and on to your problem.

The reason you are struggling with the lighting is a simple

lack of understanding in how the software works, which given

that you appear to be new to Max is not surprising.

 

The daylight system is purpose built for 'Exterior' only scenes,

the look you are describing is very easy to set up using

direct light (MR area spot, or PM Area light) coming through

the opening and using MR for an indirect illumination system

augmented by your interior lighting. If you are using the demo

of Max 9 there is a Fantastic tutorial using the exact sort

of scene you are talking about in the Max Docs.

 

Hope that is of some help

Regards

Bri

 

I sent you a PM and I'll say it in public - the first paragraph is nonsense. If you don't want to help others then don't bother posting in their threads! You know the problem with this world is everyone is so damn focused on making sure they get theirs. Do you really think that sharing knowledge with others is in some way going to cut into your revenue stream or some other thing? If that's it that is complete BS. As for my tone please don't read into it things that are not there because you don't know me at all. Okay, I'm stepping off my soap box now LOL.

 

As for your answer to my question, thank you. I'll check out the tutorial.

[landshark]

Now, with all those words said, let's get to the heart of the problem. It looks like you have your exterior light source too high. If you are using Vray Sun and a Vray Camera, try lowering your multiplier to around 0.001, and check your F-stop on your camera. The iris may be open too much (1 or 2) you really need to play with those settings as well as your iso. Treat the camera the same way you would a real camera, and you will get pretty good results. Now, for your interior light, What are you using, Omni's, spots, Vraylights or photometrics? It really depends on which. The thing I try and do is to add a light, put it at a low setting and start increasing its brightness. Dont go overboard with one light. Think of the space as you would a actual room. How many bulbs do you have in a 10'x10' space, and what are their wattages? how much absorbtion will the color of my walls create. (the darker the wall, the darker your space, so you have to account for that in your light palcement.) I could go on, but the more time you spend reading, the less time you have before your Max demo runs out. I hope this helps.

[a_w]

I haven't used C4D much, but I think lighting in 3DSMax is difficult for some because when using the default scanline renderer there are at least two separate lighting workflows (Standard and Photometric), and even though you should not mix Standard and Photometric lights, the names of the lights don't always tip you off to which are which.

 

In another thread you mentioned you were using omnis and spots to light the interior. Those are Standard lights and can be used to fake radiosity. The lighting tutorials on this site will walk you through faking radiosity properly: http://www.cgarchitect.com/resources/tutorials/smoke3d/default.asp.

 

The Daylight system you added is a combination of two Photometric lights, IES Sun and IES Sky. With Photometric lights, you don't fake radiosity, but instead run a radiosity calculation. Being that you have less than a day left in the 30-day trial, I won't bore you with the exacting details of running a radiosity calculation. Instead, you should get rid of the Daylight system and either replace it with a Sunlight system (found in the same area as the Daylight system) or use manta's suggestion of placing a direct light outside of your windows. Step 3.2 of the "Light and Shadow Basics - Part 3" tutorial, linked to above, describes how to setup the direct light.

 

Now, why the Daylight system turned off your other lights, I'm not 100% sure of because I can't recreate your problem. When you say "turn off" I'm first assuming you mean the render is almost black. I have noticed sometimes in 3DS Max 9, if I start a scene with one or more photometric lights, but don't run a radiosity calculation before rendering, the render is extremely underexposed to the point of looking black. To fix that, I go to Render > Advanced Lighting > Exposure Control and toggle the Logarithmic Exposure control from active, to inactive, and back. Renders after that point look fine.

 

If I'm wrong in my assumption, and what you really mean is that the Daylight system washed out your entire scene, then it's probably because the skylight half of the Daylight system is not setup to cast shadows, so light passes freely through/across surfaces. Either way, Daylight is the wrong light to use and should be deleted.

 

 

It's unfortunate that your experience with the forum hasn't been stellar so far. Give us time though. I think many of us are still drunk off of leftover eggnog.

[innerdream]

Brian, Landshark and a w, et al - thanks for the replies, I'll save them for later. In the time I have left I went to the book store and read Ted Boardmans tutorial on lighting a scene with an omni as the main interior light and spots for the exterior beaming through the windows. I don't have much time so I'll give that a whack and move on.

[cakewalkr7]

The daylight system is purpose built for 'Exterior' only scenes,

 

Really? I could have sworn that one of the MR tutorials is an interior scene using an exterior daylight system. If it is in fact meant only for exterior scenes, maybe that's why I'm having so much trouble using it as an outside light to shine through my windows. But if so, why would the included tuts use it for an interior scene?

[a_w]

The Daylight system recreates exterior lighting conditions, but it can be used effectively for both exterior and interior renders. VIZDepot has a tutorial on setting it up the Daylight system for an interior.

 

Radiosity - The Things Your Mother Never Told You

http://www.vizdepot.com/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=42

[innerdream]

Hey Guys,

 

Sorry, my bad. Shouldn't have stuck the word 'only' in

there, letting my typing figures get the best of me. The

Daylight/Sunlight system Tut is the one I refered to but

from a 'brand new to Max' users point of view as I am

guessing Robert is, a simple Area/Area Spot at the window

along with FG would be a lot less daunting and possibly

frustarting to tackle.

Hopefully the Ted B stuff was a good start point.

 

Regards

Bri

 

I have a question about Max in general. It appears to me that this program has grown over time because the interface is not very clearly laid out. How old is the program? Yes, I'm brand new to Max and as I mentioned I learned Cinema 4D for about a month first.

[Justin Hunt]

The Max interface in quite daunting at first, but there is a crazy logic there in. It may seem like a tone of settings, dials and buttons. What I like about it is that the tools are right there when you need then as you need them. Unlike Maya, where alot of the tools are hidden deep in menus and hot boxes, everything is at you finger tips.

 

Having said that , it is about time the interface was cleaned up and made more uniform across the board.

 

On Topic now, The daylight system works very well for interiors, a few pointers

 

1) Make sure the exposure control, exterior lighting is off

2) dial down the sun intensity if the hotspots are too strong, but compensate by increasing the sky intensity, try to keep the sum of the sun and sky = 2

3) dont be afraid to play with the physical scale setting of exposure control, but keep the mid tone at 1

4) Start with an empty room to get the lighting right, then add the clutter.

 

JHV

[manta]

I sent you a PM and I'll say it in public - the first paragraph is nonsense. If you don't want to help others then don't bother posting in their threads! You know the problem with this world is everyone is so damn focused on making sure they get theirs. Do you really think that sharing knowledge with others is in some way going to cut into your revenue stream or some other thing? If that's it that is complete BS. As for my tone please don't read into it things that are not there because you don't know me at all. Okay, I'm stepping off my soap box now LOL.

 

As for your answer to my question, thank you. I'll check out the tutorial.

 

You have a really poor attitude, best of luck to you...you'll need it

[stefkeB]

The way I tell it to my students in classes:

 

The DayLight system is easy to setup, since it requires little settings: date, time, orientation and location. That's all. That said, when you want to use both interior photometric lights and the daylight system, you have some difficulty ahead, as you might have noticed.

 

Light intensities range from about 0 to about 100.000 lux (the sun). The interior lights are in the very low ranges (about 0 to 100 or 1000). When you spread the 100.000 possible intensities over the 255 intensities your computer monitor can display, you have to do some mapping. This is what the exposure control will do for you.

 

Logarithmic exposure control maps it logarithmically, meaning that the lower intensities will not all be mapped to 0 or 1, as would happen with linear exposure control.

 

But the sun is so bright, it simply overwhelms the other light sources. It's that simple.

 

---

 

If you are into simulation, there is no point in faking, but if you are into visualization, do whatever you can to make it look fine:

- bump up the brightness of interior lights

- decrease the brightness of the sun and sky

 

It would be best to use the same (logarithmic) exposure control and tweak the sun without the interior lights first. Then turn it of. Then you tweak the interior lights without the sun, until they brighten the room.

 

Point is: you have more control if you set the lights without other lights intervening.

 

And then combine the two renderings:

- either by turning all lights on and tweaking further

- or by compositing the two separate images in a bitmap-editor

 

Good luck