Please help me decide work flow tools for year 5 grad studio

[Macpod]

Hi all

 

Im a final year student going into graduation studio. the type of visualisation ill be looking at will be simple, most likely just greyscale/transparency/simple lighting renderings. The emphasis is on spatial idealisation/visualisation. 3D sections are very important to me.

 

i also need to work on an urban scale, extruding whole city blocks etc for site context.

 

what programs would suit me best? right now i only have 2d autocad experience and sketch up. Rhino+autocad seems like a good combination. I don't really want to be locked into something like archicad since i dont need detailed drawings or any of that BIM stuff.

 

any suggestions are welcome.

 

 

EDIT: I dont imagine myself doing any complex organic geometries. the project will be a large public place with complex urban connections and interna; spatial relationships. There probably will be several levels with complex ambiguous connections (think koolhaas).

[womble]

You should be able to get an educational license of Max 9 for about 80quid (2 year license, not sure how much it is in Australia). Together with Autocad (and maybe even Sketchup for really quick city massing blocks), you have a really powerful modeller that comes equipped with Mental Ray, which would be more than adequate for the types of visualisation you require.

 

For a suggested workflow, I would suggest:

 

Autocad : Linework

Sketchup : Simple extrusions of site plans

Max : Modelling of linework and rendering

 

I wouldn't use sketchup for anything other than extruding the site plan as I feel the renders end up very 'blocky'. Spending a bit of time to learn Max will pay dividends in a final presentation. Even if you require a single curve in a building you design, Sketchup models will look awful (Sketchup segments a curve into X number of straight lines).

[Macpod]

thx. so everything gets imported into 3d max for rendering including sketch up right? is the importing straightorward? i remeber having trouble importing sketch up files into max as 3ds....any tips on that?

[womble]

The sketchup geometry doesn't import very well im afraid (unless i've been doing something wrong in the past). I prefer to apply a material to all geometry in sketchup, group it all, import it, change the material in Max and try not to change the sketchup geometry at all once inside max.

 

In my experience you just end up with a lot of triangulation from sketchup geometry. I can't remember the actual settings I used under the sketchup import box, but I think there are tutorials online via google somewhere. There can just sometimes be some issues with coplanar surfaces, or objects being grouped strangely. A little experimentation and im sure you could sort something out for importing simple geometry.

[JamesTaylor]

personnally i'd cut out the sketchup step.

 

create your model in AutoCAD and then file link (rather than importing) into max. Once in max you can apply any materials / textures required and setup up your lighting. Rendering wise, as gary says you'll have access to Mental Ray as part of Max otherwise i'd suggest Vray as a good choice since its widely used, simple to setup and has loads of resources on the net.

 

The advantage of using file link to bring your geometry into max is that you can easily go back and update your model, then reload it via the file link utility in max and your amends will be reflected in your max scene.

[vizwhiz]

if you use The FILELINK The autocad 3d model into max, my workflow

DONT FORGET To change The 'reload' setting in The FileLink manager!

 

Filelink

Presets

preset NAME

Modify

Advanced

"Use scene material assignments on Reload'

This is The last option listed under Advanced

 

**

 

This shouldnt be so buried, because otherwise

 

you will lose ALL your material assignments everytime

you do a FileLink reload (and how would i know This?)..

 

or otherwise

 

i Think sketchup now has a plug-in renderer, 'Podium?'

The new max9 has some great rendering presets with mental ray

 

Thanks

 

Randy

[Macpod]

Cool. Any suggestions on books or tutorial sites for 3D modeling in autocad? I havent touched 3D modeling in autocad albeit a clumsy attempt at extruding.

 

thanks.

[vizwhiz]

search results for 3d autocad modeling

 

**

 

3d autocad modeling, Page 1 of 444,027 results

 

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?mkt=en-us&q=3d+autocad+modeling&FORM=TOOLBR

 

**

 

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,290,000 for 3d autocad modeling.

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=3d+autocad+modeling

 

**

 

There should be some useful information in There That is useful or usable

if not, i have always intended on writing some 3d autocad modeling Tutorials

 

i even snagged a website name: www.2dcd2b3d.com

 

**

 

hopefully you do NOT have autocad LT because LT wont do 3d

 

??

 

**

 

Thanks

 

Randy

[Macpod]

I have autocad 2006 with express tools. also have ADT2004 but i was told its best to familiarise myself with 2006 first.

 

those links are good. i'll take a lok at the caddigest material first.

 

woudl be great to see some tutes from you. thx.

 

 

PS. is it difficult to do 3d sectional perspective in autocad?

[Macpod]

3D AutoCAD 2006: One Step at a Time

 

is this a good book?

 

 

Speaking of that, would 2007 be better? i hear it has more 3D features.

[alexg]

I say, stick to your guns. No use adding more stress in learning new software while you in the middle of something. Sketchup is already good. I know some guys really did top notch modelling in Sketchup. You just need to push it hard. And the rendering is good for conceptual / educational level. Too much realism will kill the concept.

 

As mentioned above, Podium is a new rendering software for Sketchup. Might worth a try. Just call them and arrange for a student / educational version, they will respond. Here's the news link for Podium.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/21140-sketchup-podium-version-1-released.html

 

I might get a slap from expert SU user, but IMO, Sketchup to Max is horrible. I would completely remodel everything in Max.

[vizwhiz]

Macpod

 

WARNING

 

i just am finding out That ADT 2007 LOSES all its Material definitions

when reloading using The FileLink Manager Technique, not sure about

 

autocad 2007 (probably) The same but i am not sure

 

That i know of i was just using autocad 2006 and VIZ 2007 for projects

and The FileLink Manager Technique did NOT lose its material assignments

 

2007 has more 3d features, for modeling and etc, mental ray Too

as Alexg mentioned Sketchup is possibly better for conceptual work

 

i cant seem To find all The 'express Tools' in 2007 which is a real problem

since i rely heavily on ET since i am old-style keyboard shortcuts-user dude

 

you have options and Time To make a good choice

 

not sure about The books, i havent read any lately

but i have been doing This for The last 18 years, Tho

 

Thanks

 

Randy

[AJLynn]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest some non-Autodesk software

 

Autocad is all well and good for 2D drawing. For 3D? Unless you've been using it for 3D for years and it's what you know, why start now? It's got to be the slowest, most annoying 3D modeling program I've used.

 

AutoCAD to Sketchup is fast and easy and after you get some experience (which for Sketchup means about 3 hours of working with it) you can do some great detailed stuff. I highly recommend defining a set of keyboard shortcuts once you know which buttons you'll use.

 

Once you have a Sketchup model, why bother with Max? Max is best when you want a great photorealistic render, but to be honest, you're in your final semester and you need to spend your time on designing, not learning how to do photorealistic renders and then doing them. You can just use your Sketchup graphics. Develop your own style, take advantage of the improvements in Sketchup6, use Photoshop to comp together layers - you can go nuts on it.

 

(BTW, Alex, I do Sketchup to Max all the time and it works great. Sketchup to Cinema is even better, because Cinema's automatic untriangulate and optimize tools work very well on these kinds of things. Add in Cinema's Sketch&Toon and you can take your sketchy graphics up a notch.)

[vizwhiz]

it would be interesting To Take a basic idea, 3d sketch

and Try out The different softwares workflows and compare

 

what kind of results we come up with

can anyone say 'monthly unchallenge'?

 

just an idea

 

Thanks

 

Randy

[John Dollus]

Why do you feel SketchUp/AutoCAD are not up to the task?

If it is simply a question of rendering style, there is Vray for SketchUp and Kerkythea though I agree with others in that photorealism is usually not the way to go for the type of work you are describing. Psychology plays a great part in the early design phases of projects and when you throw in established site context, the focus can drift away from what you are wanting to convey.

[JamesTaylor]

haha... i love these posts!! so many different ways to do the same thing!

 

I've already said my prefered method, but Andrew may well have the best advice... stick to what you know. However you end up doing it i'd say having a good fully complete, polished and consistant final result will look better for your submission than a piece which has a few good elements and few poor elements.

[Macpod]

Yeh. Im very tempted to just go with autocad and sketchup while learning some autocad 3D on the side, although i have a feeling it wont take me that long plus i prefer the results ive seen with autocad. Will probably play with rhino for those times i need something abit funky.

 

When i mentioned site context i meant just the massing of the buildings in its urban context, not landscaping. landscaping looks SHIET in rendering unless you really know what your doing and it fittted in with the project.

 

I've come to conclude i should just start RIGHT NOW with one of the programs and try out other ones as i go. although i think for 3d modeling i should probably stick to one or two. I like rhino and i know 3d max is industry standard but formz and C4D are also Mac compatible......damn, thats another thread for another day. lol

[joseph alexander]

Rhino + Vray.

 

Your student license allows you to use it for proffesional work after you graduate.

 

You can draft, model, and render natively all in the same program. Rhino 4 allows for lineweights and sheet views.

 

-Joe

[alexg]

Yes, I forgot to mention about Rhino. It's great for all those geometry that we cannot do with acad, but needs more precision than max.

 

Andrew, nice to know someone has great experience of Sketchup-Max. Now we know who to ask when we're facing problem.

[Macpod]

When is rhino 4 coming out again? If thats the case then i guess i need to export back into autocad for lineweights, or do it in photoshop? To be honest for grad project walls will just be solid black. But probably need some 1/5 details.

 

Ill install rhino and give it a shot tonight. any recommandations on tutorials for architecture? I found some good ones for autocad 3d.