Bank Building Atrium

[Vektor]

This is my first post in the CGArchitect forums, though I have been a regular visitor/lurker for quite some time. I have worked in the lighting design industry for the last 13 years and have been trying to break into 3D architectural visualization for the last couple of years, which has been a bit of a challenge since I have no formal training other than as a CAD draftsman. Since the first of this year, I have finally worked my way into a position where I can do this type of work on a regular basis and this is my first major project with my new employer.

 

This is a model of an atrium space in the middle of a three-story bank building. As I said, I work in the lighting design industry, so the primary purpose of this model is to evaluate one or more interior lighting schemes, but the client has requested a moderately high level of detail and photorealism as well. I'm working from a set of AutoCAD drawings and will be using 3ds Max 9 for the modeling and rendering. My first couple of WIP images are attached.

 

Obviously, there are no textures or materials applied yet. At this stage, the kind of feedback I'm looking for has to do with modeling techniques. As I said, I am basically self-taught, so if I'm doing something in a totally wrong way or if there is a vastly better way to do it, please tell me. I should also mention that I am aware of AEC objects for walls, doors, windows, etc, but I haven't taken the plunge into learning and using them yet.

 

I'll be posting more WIPs as I go along. Thanks in advance for all assistance and suggestions.

[denham]

The consensus I've gotten from this board is that AEC objects are worthless.

 

Most people model walls by making boxes, and doors by using boolean operations to cut a 'hole' in the wall. Lofts & Sweeps are the preferred way to model walls.

[Vektor]

I have done some very limited tinkering with AEC objects and came to pretty much the same conclusion. By the time I got done fussing with them to get them just right, I could have built whatever it was myself from scratch.

[Vektor]

Today I finished constructing the floor and ceiling for each level and began work on the overhead trusses. The trusses were drawn flat with splines from the CAD drawing and shapemerged into a plane object, then a shell modifier was added to create a 6" thickness. This resulted in an object with better controlled faces and fewer long, skinny triangles than if I had simply extruded a spline outline. This whole model is being built with an eye toward radiosity calculations so I am taking care to avoid intersecting or co-planar geometry as much as possible. Takes longer to build but it will be less prone to rendering artifacts.

[Vektor]

Previous WIPs were a bit dark so I've switched to some generic ambient light sources with a radiosity solution until I get to the texturing and lighting stage.

 

Tha basic shell of the space is now complete. Next I'll probably be adding a glass elevator tower down at the far end and starting on the finishing details like doors and windows.

[Vektor]

Added the glass elevator tower and made numerous refinements to the skylight area in coordination with the architect. Interestingly, this project has already resulted in changes to the architect's design as unforseen structural issues have come to light during the 3D modeling process. At the architect's request, I will be making further modifications to the columns on both sides of the space. The engineer on the project has also requested a preliminary lighting analysis so that will probably show up in my next set of renderings as well.

[Juan Altieri]

Obviously, there are no textures or materials applied yet.

 

by the way if you put a white common material to all you will see the details better, i think the saturated colours are a little cunfused to understand the modelling process

 

keep on posting!

[Juan Altieri]

Obviously, there are no textures or materials applied yet.

 

by the way if you put a white common material to all you will see the details better, i think the saturated colours are a little cunfused to understand the modelling process

 

keep on posting!

[mfured20]

i agree about making the scene a single color for posts like this, you'll be able to see how the shadows fall a lot better. but im interested to see how this goes, keep posting!

[Vektor]

I have quite a few updates to show. The psychedelic colors have been done away with in favor of generic 80/50/20 grayscale values. For those of you not familiar with the lighting industry, that's 80% for the ceilings, 50% for the walls and 20% for the floors.

 

The lighting has also changed per the project engineer and the entire space is now being lit by indirect light sources along the sides of skylight ceiling. There will be more lights eventually but the engineer wanted a preliminary read on how much light we were getting at floor level with just the indirects. The answer is, not much, which explains why these latest renderings are rather dark.

 

There have been a few architectural changes, mostly pertaining to the columns on either side of the space. I've also gone through two different versions of the balcony railings today, with the latest visible along the curved side of the second floor in these renderings. I've included a closeup of one of the new railing segments as well. Again, don't judge me on the quality of the lighting at this point; it's gonna look pretty dim and unflattering until I can bring more than just the indirects into play.

 

Detailing and texturing should begin in earnest early next week.

[saurus]

The processing is very interesting to watch, very professional thinking

in the 80/50/20 % scale (thanks for sharing)

 

Keep posting.

 

you are getting there.

[Vektor]

80/50/20 reflectances are an industry standard for interior lighting calculations when you don't have anything more specific. In the case of this bank building atrium, the space is literally still being designed, both architecturally and in terms of the colors and finishes, so I don't have much choice but to go with the default values at this point.

 

The cool part is, the owner is still a bit vague on what they actually want at this point, so I have been given some lattitude to try a few things of my own with the model that could wind up as part of the final design. I've got some lighting ideas in particular that could make an appearance in my next set of renderings. Stay tuned.

[FlytE]

Just for the hell of it can we see one thats just all white?

[Vektor]

I totally rebuilt the elevator tower today per a new set of detail drawings from the architect. I also modified the columns and balcony edges to better match what the architect had asked for. I threw in some additional lighting on the back side of the columns as well, basing the idea on a particular lighting product my new company represents, but the architect may or may not go for it. At the very least, it gets the ambient light levels up a little bit more.

 

I had hoped to get the railing finished today, but I'm waiting on a detail for the corner posts from the metal fabrication guy, so it will probably be a day or two before I get back to that. In the meantime, I'll be adding more finishing details, mainly door and window trims, and hopefully get some texturing going some time this week also.

[3D_IC]

I like the amount of detail and effort you are putting into this

 

Looking good

 

Its refreshing to see someone from the lighting design field tackling a lighting issue in a professional way. Many people will learn from your WIP.

 

keep it up!

[Vektor]

Just for the hell of it can we see one thats just all white?

 

Since the lighting design is a key component of this project, I'll be sticking with 80/50/20 reflectances until I have more info about the colors and finishes. I am using grayscale values, though, so these latest renderings are closer to what you want to see, albeit still a bit dark.

[Vektor]

Well, I finished the railing, added some preliminary textures, and switched to a daylight scenario. I'm well aware that the floor texture looks like crap, but the actual floor will have wavy inlays of different materials and other patterns to break up the regularity of the slate tile. I'm still waiting on updated elevations, lighting plans and floor patterns. I'm also waiting for the final colors and finishes from the interior designer, which could be radically different from what you see here.

 

At this point, I'm open to any and all suggestions on how to improve the visual quality of these renderings. I don't think they're too bad for WIPs but I know there's room for improvement.

[3D_IC]

Looking good. I think the camera distortion makes the images feel like screen grabs from a computer game. Also textures seem a bit washed out specially the floor. Looks great for a WIP though

[Vektor]

I'm using a 15mm virtual lens, which accounts for the camera distortion, but it's useful during the WIP process to be able to see the entire space--or most of it--at once.

 

As for the washed-out textures, you're definitely right about that. Ironically, good lighting is something I have always struggled with in architectural renderings, and washed-out textures always seem to be the result. I've gotten a little better at ballancing light levels and exposure controls through sheer trial and error but I've never been fully satisfied with the results, especially when using actual daylighting systems. Any tips and suggestions would be much appreciated.

[Vektor]

Finally got the lighting plan from the project engineer. The sources have been added to the model but they are still invisible and will remain so until the fixture selections have been more or less finalized. I don't want to have to model any of the light fixtures more than once. These are night time renderings again, by the way.

[Lhanh29]

Hi! I think your work is better and better.Keep your post.

[alfienoakes]

The consensus I've gotten from this board is that AEC objects are worthless.

 

Most people model walls by making boxes, and doors by using boolean operations to cut a 'hole' in the wall. Lofts & Sweeps are the preferred way to model walls.

 

I have come in a little late here, but I would completely disagree with the above statement. I do all of my drawings in ADT, if thats what we are actually talking about (AEC old name for ADT) and I would be lost without it. I can draw in Viz, but can knock out the general guts of a building in no time at all using the windows / doors / curtain walls etc.. so dont discount them completely..

 

Its probably more of a knowledge thing.. some people are knowledgable in in one program, some in others..

 

Having said that, the model is coming on nicely, a few issues regarding tiling, and a bit more depth to some of the shadows / corners etc..

 

But that is a large space, and its tricky to get light to all of those areas..

[Vektor]

AEC stands for "Architectural, Engineering and Construction." In 3ds Viz and 3ds Max, it is a collection of parametric objects for quickly creating walls, doors, windows, foliage, etc. ADT, I presume, refers to Architectural Desktop, which uses similar types of parametric objects. I haven't used AEC objects much, mostly because I find them too restrictive in the way they interact with other parts of a 3D model, but I'll allow that much of that is probably due to my lack of experience with them. One type of object I have found very useful is foliage. It really saved my butt on a couple of building exterior renderings when I had no better options for the trees and bushes.

 

As for texture tiling, I assume you're referring mainly to the floor of the atrium. The exact tile pattern for that floor is still being decided upon by the interior designer so I'm just using a standard Max material that looks more or less like the one they were last considering. Once they pin it down, I'll do something more detailed and better looking.

[alfienoakes]

Ah yes... If we are talking about the Viz AEC objects I would probably agree with you..

 

I still come across a lot of people who refer to ADT as AEC.. too many acronyms..

[Vektor]

Well, the architect and engineer have been busy refining their designs so I've just been sitting on this project for the last couple of weeks. I finally got some updated plans three days ago and have made the necessary changes and additions, though certain details are still in flux. You'll probably note, for example, that the downlights in the ceilings surrounding the atrium space are not correctly aligned with the ceiling grids. This is because neither the engineer's downlight layouts nor the architect's reflected ceiling plans have yet been finalized. It's also quite possible that this is as far as the client will choose to take the 3D visualization of this project since the main purpose was to analyze the lighting design, not to produce 100% complete, photorealistic renderings. About all I have left to do for sure is run a set of daytime renderings, which I will probably post later today.

 

As for the model itself, I know there are lots of things I could do to improve the realism, such as chamfering a few edges here and there, making the texture patterns for the floor less repetitive, and actually recessing the downlights into the ceiling rather than just placing luminous discs on the surface, among other things, but as I said, total realism was always a secondary objective with this project. Nevertheless, I'm always interested in comments and constructive criticism so I can improve my skills and techniques.