This really needs To be looked at for additional INFO

[vizwhiz]

hi There

 

what i am reading is kind of distressing especially if you have an OpenGL video card

from an weekly enewsletter i get from Ralph Grabowski, Go Ralph! a link To some etc Info

* Wow! Vista Runs CAD (up to) 50x Slower

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page7.html

 

With Vista's abandonment of industry-standard OpenGL, CAD users take a second hit. Their high-speed, 4-figure OpenGL graphics boards are junk. For example, ATI's high-end FireGL 3X-256 is an OpenGL-only graphics board that just last year was priced at $1,500 in its home country of Canada. It does not work with Vista

 

http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/

 

In comment on a related post, "Ballenger Motorsports" links to Web sites at SolidWorks and Tom's Hardware, which show Vista running CAD applications much slower than XP.

 

How much slower? Pro/Engineer runs some 85% slower. UGS NX runs 98% slower.

 

here is a google search result for "vista slow opengl"

 

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GWYF,GWYF:2006-50,GWYF:en&q=vista+slow+opengl

 

read it for yourself, This is worth investigation before upgrading

 

**

 

i got one of These, oops actually 2x with The Crossfire series

 

http://ati.amd.com/products/RadeonX1950/index.html

 

**

 

Thanks

 

Randy

------

Randy's Rule of Thumb, 'Upgrade = downTime' (i said That)

[AJLynn]

Wait a minute. Vista has no OpenGL support at all? As in, Microsoft has decided that because it does not control OpenGL, OpenGL must die in favor of Direct3D, so it stops supporting it, requiring all software developers who use it to spend tons of time changing? Or as in, there's some driver issue that hasn't been fixed in Vista? Or as in, Microsoft makes Direct3D the core technology, OpenGL now get translated to Direct3D through some software level black box abstraction and becomes incredibly slow because of that?

 

I hate Windows upgrades. They're always a huge hassle, with broken software and everything running slower. (I only have a Core2 @2.8GHz and a FireGL. Not going to be enough to run Vista with all the features turned on, guess I'll need a new computer - another Mac.)

[mtutaj]

installed vista to test some software updates on the wifes machine 3 weeks ago. What a nightmare. you are correct, it states that a quadro card rates a 1 on a scale of 1-5 and 5 being the best. Your better off installing a gaming card. With the UAC, we had all sorts of problems witn IE7. since all the new security features in Vista, single users are no longer administrators. so we had to right-click on the ie icon and run as administartor for it to work, along with some other programs. Plus no Serial support for devices. Serial wacom tablet. also we are still having some usb issues with a few devices. Also is a major memory hog, if you want to run vista and office 2007, you need at least 2 gigs of ram. wife have 1.5 gg, and still is running like a dog. System locks up all the time,and have to reboot.

 

Waiting for SP1 from microsoft which should be out soon from what I've heard.

 

Thats all I have to say. My next rendernodes are going to be installed with xp-64.

[Macpod]

I guess this means autodesk and Co. will have to abandon openGL and go with direct3d About bloody time really. i dont know if theres some fundamental programing rule that means CAD needs opengl, but why stick with open gl hen everyone else is running DX?

 

If this means i can get all the quadro goodness on my directx card, i fail to see the negative side.

 

All you rich quadro people can stick with XP for work(not much of a bother really) and autodesk can make the switch in 2008.

 

SWEEET

[AJLynn]

Don't see the negative side? This is Microsoft using their monopoly power to cause an established industry standard (OpenGL) to be abandoned in favor of a Microsoft product. They do this all the time. They hate industry standards because they don't own them.

 

So now Cinema, Maya, etc., will need to have D3D support added. This will take a lot of programmer time, cost the software companies a lot of money, and set back their schedules for introducing fixes and features that we actually do want. And what benefit is there? The popular programs - Max, Maya, Cinema - already ran about as fast on a Geforce as a Quadro anyway, and Autocad was already quite good on a gamer card, but now the only one of these four programs that will function at an acceptable level under Vista without the next major upgrade is Max. Even Sketchup will be broken. Dear gods, imagine Revit or ADT under Vista...

 

Yippee, we're all equally screwed, no matter how much we paid for our video card - Bill Gates' version of communism.

 

Meanwhile, you can't run the word processor in 1.5GB RAM? Any idea what percentage of people have 2GB? It must be under 1%. The people I know who don't do architecture or graphic design have 256 or 512.

 

And what point could there possibly be in desupporting the serial port?

 

Yeah, I'll be sticking to XP until at least 2009.

[Macpod]

I understand your concern. I suppose we will see what autodesk does in response to this. Maybe industry preassure will force MS to support openGL again. Or maybe we need to give autodesk programmer some credit, perhaps they will make the transition without too much inconvinience for us users.

 

Im not going to defend vista at all. I see it as a crap OSX clone. I wont use it until the issues with 3D support gets sorted out.

 

Does anyone think memory prices will go up for alittle while since anyone who bought a laptop with 256mb ram will be buying those 1G ram. good thing 2 gigs of 667mhz corsair are sitting contently in my computer

[AJLynn]

Heh. I don't think that will drive memory prices up because I don't believe the average user know enough to know to upgrade memory in that scenario.

[Ernest Burden III]

All you rich quadro people can stick with XP for work(not much of a bother really) and autodesk can make the switch in 2008.

 

One of the articles off Randy's link was an AEC newsletter, and it talked about how ADSK was already trying to go over to DX to respond to Vista. But their large customers aren't going to first adopters of Vista, anyway.

 

Rich? Hardly. Especially after you do buy a Quadro. Yeah, I'm happy enough with XP, though I preferred W2K. Its going the wrong way. MacOS? Sure, why not? Maybe Apple wants to write a version to run Windows code natively. Except Steve Jobs and Bill Gates would have to go into the ring for a Celebrity Deathmatch episode. But why the hell not?

 

And why, exactly, would we need or want to use Vista? What indefensible features does it have over XP for a professional artist's workstation? The look? I can live without that, besides, I keep my XP machines in 'classic W2K' mode as it is.

[Chad Warner]

And why, exactly, would we need or want to use Vista? What indefensible features does it have over XP for a professional artist's workstation? The look? I can live without that, besides, I keep my XP machines in 'classic W2K' mode as it is.

 

Exactly!

[Ernest Burden III]

Exactly!

 

Almost. My "indefensible features" was supposed to be 'indispensible' but the FireFox spellchecker helped me spell the wrong word right. Sometimes you nail it, sometimes you hit your finger.

[AJLynn]

Actually I think Vista has several indefensible features.

[F J]

And why, exactly, would we need or want to use Vista? What indefensible features does it have over XP for a professional artist's workstation? The look? I can live without that, besides, I keep my XP machines in 'classic W2K' mode as it is.

 

heh, i rest my case.

[Fran]

Lol EBIII.