Visual Impact Studies...breaking into it

[Claudio Branch]

The dog pile has turned into a technical and legal morass about theoretical images thus far.

 

Are they even interesting to look at? Who knows, who cares any more...

[Nic H]

What is this guy on about? rambling confusing rubbish.

 

Alot of the work the company I work for is 'visual impact studies'. We call them 'align views' and use a internally developed and legally verified process and expert evidence to prepare verifiable studies of building in context.

 

Without going to far into it it is a very involved process that involves surveyors, professional photographers, accurate modelling, materials and lighting. This is done completed in 3Dmax, autocad, and sometimes Archicad using a variety of techniques.

 

Our images have held up in over 100 VCAT sessions (Victorian civil and administrative tribunal). VCAT is the body that asseses and deals with built proposals and complaints. As far as I know our company is the only visualization company in Australia that currently produces verfiable images.

 

Align View images are significantly more expensive to produce due to teh extra consultants and documentation produced. However it always gives a 'correct' result and is alot easier than trying to match perspective by eye which is very difficult.

 

The examples on our website arent the best ones for some reason but give you an idea of the quality. Here is a recent one I completed for a small commercial development.

 

 

The before image can be found on the website. I will be updating the align view section shortly to include some bigger more impressive buildings and developments using align view.

 

http://www.orbitsolutions.com.au/align.htm

[Nic H]

(OT. wow alex i just checked out your website, very nice images!)

(hayesdavidson stuff is very impressive as well)

[alexg]

Thx Nic

 

I am interested to know which professional photographer and expert witness to contact if I am to produce 100% accurate verified VIS. If I am to produce a project that may invite a legal lawsuit, I want to feel safe working on it.

 

Once we have a project in which requires accurate VIS, and the photographer provides a stitched image. My client require 100% accuracy, but when I ask the photographer how he stitch the image, he replies that he does it by 'eye' only on photoshop. Lots of skewing and distorting to get the image together.

That, I think is pampering with the data. How can I be accurate if the raw data isn't

[Nic H]

You cannot use stitched images with camera matching / align view images. It has to be a single shot, generally more than 20mm lens also produces barrel distortion on the outsides of the image so its best to keep the building as centered as possible in the image to avoid misleading distortion.

 

Images shot from far away can also be problematic.

 

Having a sound reproduceable methodology is the key to verifiable images. There are numerous ways to produce verifiable images. It is mostly about eliminating as many variables or areas for error as possible and proving through process that the degree of error in your image is small enough to be called 'accurate'.

[alexg]

Are they even interesting to look at? Who knows, who cares any more...

 

Interesting images are for marketing

Accurate images, although not always interesting, are for courts and legals

 

IMO, both are important

[Virgil Johnson]

I started drafting in the aerospace industry where 1/10,000 of an inch was typically. When i began a job as an architectural drafter, i naturally was inclined to use the same precision but my boss told me to never use more than 1/8th because as Aaron says, the contractors will either laugh or curse us and it makes us look stupid. It just ain't practical.

 

Mr. Smith

 

You and Mr. Burden and the and others are correct about the illusion of the four decimal point accuracy I think.

 

But since this is a legal process all work is documented and often later analyzed.

 

I am going to post such a project here (if I can figure out to get jpgs uploaded).

 

I hasten to once again push a subtle but important point about visual impact modeling.

Glamor is not always the issue and often is pushed aside for accuracy.

This is an expensive process involving a lot of work both in the field and with the model and budgets are limited.

We try to give over the best looking model pictures that we can but often that is not the real goal.

 

The Adirondack project I will use for illustration may help clear this up a bit.

 

What is important is the study reflects the use of standard drawing techniques using industry standard software.

Everyone has to agree on some standard to use and AutoCAD is the accepted industry standard.

Whether all of the claims of the software are true or not, what is important is that you have used the accepted industry standard.

 

Changes are (as in the Adirondack study) some attorneys are going to present your work as being the real thing and they must have the best backing to make their case.

Others are going comb through your work and try to find flaws.

 

As far as billing.. for Mr. Burden

 

Many jobs are very "canned". These are the meat and potatoes of the work and quotes are based on the complexity of the job, how many viewpoints are chosen and how many books have to be printed.

Other jobs are open ended and billed on an hourly basis.

 

OK onto getting an example posted

 

v

[Virgil Johnson]

I hope this thread doesn't read like piling on this guy, who as far as I can see just wants to share some ideas about a 'sister' industry to what most of us here do.

 

But one other thought on the 1/10,000th accuracy thing. Yes, AutoCad is a double-precision database, but Max isn't. ACAD doesn't do very nice renderings on its own, and the programs that do--like Max--will dumb-down that uber-accuracy to a non-realworld units single-precision model.

 

So how would you render images?

 

Mr. Burden,

 

Please pile it on.

 

I love talking about something that has given me great challenge and great fun and the more I can tell everyone about it the more you will see the excitement.

 

The final model rendering is done in Max of course.

 

AutoCAD is used to set up the entire model (a visual impact study is not just the model of what you are photographing but the model (and workspace) that allows you to reach a conclusion.

Max is then used to flesh out the project with photos presented to the public so as to create the best understanding of the impact.

 

Nothing is perfect as we know. You just try every means to get it as perfect as you are able.

Visual impact is about predicting the future - a very hard thing to do.

 

I now will work on geting an example posted.

 

virgil

[aaron-cds]

Why do the lawyers have to defend such accuracy when there are building tolerances? I understand the need to be accurate with camera matching, but I think it's dillusional to believe that buildings are built exactly how they're drawn. Maybe that happens in "architect's heaven". In my 11 years of experience as an architect, nothing has ever been built "exactly" according to the drawings, certainly not with 1/10,000 accuracy, not even close.

[Virgil Johnson]

I agree I want to see what these images look like also, and I'm wondering what the typical budget is for VIS. From what you describe your not only spending tremendous amounts of time making sure the drawings are correct and modeling the structures, but you also spend lots of time setting up the cameras and photographing the site. Not only that but it sounds like you may even spend significant amounts of time meeting with lawyers and even in court, is that right? Give us some idea of how long it takes to complete a typical project from beginning to end and what the client might pay for the services.

 

Like I’ve said I’ve done perspective matched images plenty of times but never to the level are you describing. To be honest it sounds way too technical for me and I can’t see how one person could do this job unless they had lots of time and resources.

 

Devin:

 

The costs of impact studies varies greatly.

 

Much of has to do with the complexity of field work.

Is it at the top of a mountain - meaning hundreds of equipment will have to hauled up steep slopes and assembled - often in predawn conditions.

 

Will it be balloons? - filling several 6 foot (expensive) with helium (also costly) and paying someone to stay an entire day with them (these balloons have to be located (via laser rangerfinder, clinometer, compass, etc.) at the exact moment the photos are taken. Balloons drift.

(Tip: get the best hand radios you can find and have several with you. You are in constant communication when photos are being taken.)

 

Will you photographing from a busy intersection or bridge. You have got to get the authorities to give permission and sometimes rearrange traffic to give you a safe place to work.

 

Do you have all the drawings and maps you need or do the surveryors have to locate extra points the yoiu will need.

 

How far away is the site.

 

How many viewpoints.

 

How many books have to be printed.

 

Only some of the many variables that have to priced out and an estimate given.

 

v

[Devin Johnston]

That is truly amazing, my hat's off to you for being able to handle such a massive undertaking.

[Ernest Burden III]

I think it's dillusional to believe that buildings are built exactly how they're drawn.

 

They are not. Ever. However, that should not be the problem of planning documents. How they are to executed is another level of responsibility. One that I would not want (I'm not an architect).

 

I did once design a very large structure that was built on a New York City street--a few hundred feet long wrapping around 57th St and 6th Ave. A woman tripped on part of it and sued the building and the company that erected the structure (an elaborate 'sidewalk bridge' scaffolding). Even though it was my design and I did the design docs and fabricated a lot of the actual structure, I had this nice written liability release. My get out of trouble free card.

 

 

You and Mr. Burden and the and others are correct about the illusion of the four decimal point accuracy I think.

 

The final model rendering is done in Max of course.

 

But since this is a legal process all work is documented and often later analyzed.

 

So how often does a lawyer challenge the stated accuracy of Max and Photoshop? You tell them you worked to the last decimal place of ACAD's accuracy in preparing models. Fine. But Photoshop's accuracy is highly limited--you can't do a transform to more than a single decimal place. And Max--if your model's overall scope is several miles then you could not guarantee accuracy much below an inch. Sure you can get to maybe 1/50th of an inch modeling a single structure, but add the context environment and the scope sucks the quality right out of the small stuff. Would talking about that be a normal part of a presentation or only if asked?

 

Mr. Burden,

Nothing is perfect as we know. You just try every means to get it as perfect as you are able.

 

Visual presentations are by nature information reductions. Artists seek to add elements that invoke some of the missing data in the form of emotional response. I think that is a valid effort to present a project as best you can.

 

I don't know what percentage accuracy your field promises clients/public offices/courts, but I'm quite comfortable promising with assurance that I produce carefully prepared renderings that are simply artist's interpretations. That is 100% honest and accurate.

[Virgil Johnson]

We would all love to see some images!

 

Also, if you are interested in hiring people you might want to post this on the jobs forum.

 

How do I upload images to this site?

I have several jpgs to pass on but have no idea how to do it here.

 

Thanks

 

virgil

[Devin Johnston]

http://www.imageshack.us/

[Brian Cassil]

Or hit the manage attachments button in the reply to thread screen.

[Virgil Johnson]

They are not. Ever. However, that should not be the problem of planning documents. How they are to executed is another level of responsibility. One that I would not want (I'm not an architect).

 

I did once design a very large structure that was built on a New York City street--a few hundred feet long wrapping around 57th St and 6th Ave. A woman tripped on part of it and sued the building and the company that erected the structure (an elaborate 'sidewalk bridge' scaffolding). Even though it was my design and I did the design docs and fabricated a lot of the actual structure, I had this nice written liability release. My get out of trouble free card.

 

 

 

 

So how often does a lawyer challenge the stated accuracy of Max and Photoshop? You tell them you worked to the last decimal place of ACAD's accuracy in preparing models. Fine. But Photoshop's accuracy is highly limited--you can't do a transform to more than a single decimal place. And Max--if your model's overall scope is several miles then you could not guarantee accuracy much below an inch. Sure you can get to maybe 1/50th of an inch modeling a single structure, but add the context environment and the scope sucks the quality right out of the small stuff. Would talking about that be a normal part of a presentation or only if asked?

 

 

 

Visual presentations are by nature information reductions. Artists seek to add elements that invoke some of the missing data in the form of emotional response. I think that is a valid effort to present a project as best you can.

 

I don't know what percentage accuracy your field promises clients/public offices/courts, but I'm quite comfortable promising with assurance that I produce carefully prepared renderings that are simply artist's interpretations. That is 100% honest and accurate.

 

You are exactly correct.

 

What we represent is a final project as the result of documented work.

 

What helps greatly is having done so many projects and having people check the as-builts against the impact study and the clients seem satisifed with the track record.

Yes, you must have some legal and insurance protection for this work.

 

Not often that anyone goes into the techical aspect of the drawing. But it happens often enough that you always double check you work.

The Adirondack job I will attempt to get onto this posting site is a good example.

Other experts who check your work also know about the real world of drawing accuracy and it is up to them to come up with something more accurate.

 

My method of drawing contains routine methods of rechecking the work in different ways.

 

vigil

[Virgil Johnson]

We would all love to see some images!

 

Also, if you are interested in hiring people you might want to post this on the jobs forum.

 

OK Brian here comes some images.

 

Firstly let me say that I have phased out of this business about a year ago to start out on a new drawing business. I guess I just needed a new challenge.

My bringing this topic to the site was introduce others to another use of visualization.

****

This is a study of a cell phone tower to be built in the yet virgin Adriondack Mountains.

I have chosen this study for an introduction because it illustrates clearly what makes the backbone of a visual impact study.

 

This is not a glamor shot with pretty buildings and wonderful rendering. We have done projects like that but for the moment I want to focus your attention on another aspect of modeling and visualization.

 

First Credits.

 

This study was done in conjunction with Creative Visuals of Bearsville, NY.

The primary role of Creative Visuals was to photograph, do the photoshopping, and print the presentation books containing photos, maps, letter of methodology, and a summary of the work.

 

This project was done in August, 2001.

It was extremely controversial as you can imagine (at one point the NY Times jumped in with an editorial) and is bitterly opposed by environmental groups.

 

The study was under review by the state of NY and came to a final hearing in Jan 05.

At the time two experts had been hired to study our work and create their own study.

(In the end the work of Creative Visuals and Virtually Real was found to be accurate.

However the project still was not cleared for construction.)

 

The viewpoint I am giving you is from a boat in Lake George near Bolton's Landing.

The big problem is first to locate the tower itself. Surveyors marked the spot and provided the elevation.

 

The second problem is to locate the camera which in this case is drifting about in Lake George.

 

My first modeling task to find references in the photo I can use to locate the tower so as to place and scale my model.

In jpg vp2-50 you will see a balloon to the center (look for it) and a boat house off to the right.

Also a flag pole way to the right.

 

These are my reliable points.

I can locate the boathouse and flagpole on a digital map and measure the structures so now I have accurate reference points

.

The balloon is tethered to a surveyor's stake by a measured string.

Beneath the balloon is a field observer who at the precise time of the photo taking will locate the position of the balloon to account for drift.

Drifting changes position and height of the reference marker. This is a critical measurement that I must have to build my model.

 

I also have a digital map of the shore line and I created a terrain map of the background mountains to help in the referencing.

 

Notice that the main reference - the balloon - is centered in the photo so as best to avoid problems of lens distortion.

 

The camera placement is not so reliable since the boat is drifting.

But since I have known reference markers on the land I can use them to locate the camera.

 

At the moment the photo is being taken not only are the balloons being located, the camera is also being located as well.

Laser range finders are used to determine the distance from the known references.

The AMSL is known.

A compass is used to determine angle of the camera to the reference points.

 

This data is then carried into AutoCAD and positions are laid out carefully.

 

Simple trigonometry is used to find positions and Max with its cameras is used to photograph the reference markers which are overlaid on the photo to be sure an as exact a match as possible is made.

 

I know where the model will appear in the photo and know high it will be.

 

The models for this study are very simple. One is to be a monopole with internal panels and one is a "tree".

(Cell towers are often disguised as trees, silos, church steeples, clock towers, flag poles, and more.)

 

The pole is simple and you can see the final published photo impact in jpg vp2-50 Final "Barber Bay".

This is a 50 mm shot of course.

 

Again this is not a glamor shot of with materials and GI. But is exactly what was wanted.

 

The tree presents another problem. This is jpg vp105-painted tree.

This is not considered an accurate part of the study but rather a possiblity of what could be done.

The tree itself is sort of an artist's rendering since each tree tower is built for a site and no one knows what it would really look like at this point.

However, there are modeling controls on the tree. see jpg 210 vp8t.

 

This structure is what the artist builds the tree around. The rings represent typical spacing and radius of branches - controlled by what kind of panel installation will used between the branches.

You also see a maker used to place this "tree".

The Photoshop artist uses this template to create as accurate tree as possible.

 

This is a long posting so I drop it at this point in hope that I was able to give some perspective on how modeling and visualization is used for visual impact studies.

Remember this is not completely accurate work. Nothing ever is. But it represents an effort to help decision making.

It provides just a bit of information to a complex decision making process.

Many times it is a starting point rather than the final defining point in decisions of construction.

 

virgil

[Virgil Johnson]

let me try for that upload again...

if this does not work i need help

 

v

[jackb602]

How important is AutoCad in this process? There are plenty of other CAD packages that are just as precise and are used every day to design real buildings. I would think that any CAD app with the same degree of precision would be equally accepted.

[Virgil Johnson]

How important is AutoCad in this process? There are plenty of other CAD packages that are just as precise and are used every day to design real buildings. I would think that any CAD app with the same degree of precision would be equally accepted.

 

It could be so Jack.

But when I built Virtually Real I was building a business as well as building a drawing business.

That is, I made choices that would make VR mainstream in every way.

 

(Sort of why the Eagles chose the name for the band.)

 

AutoCAD is universally accepted as the standard and I did not want to stray.

 

virgil

[pipjor]

Virgil,

thanks for your post, i did this last week for my company, we wanted to put up 2 water towers in a high end community and the residents were freaking out..

 

but i just kinda eyeballed it using the approx tree heights and known water tower heights..

 

wish i could have read your post before....

 

thanks again..

[alexg]

Virgil

 

That is a good description of what you do.

 

Three questions :

1. Ref points reliability.

Are balloons good enough for ref.points? Has anyone ever challenge this in court?

Will a gps & altitude-meter-equipped remote helicopter be better? It is much smaller than balloon and more precise in its positioning. On a clear day, GPS is quite precise. Less than 1 m is guaranteed, and 1m deviation taken from 1km away is 0.001%, good enough for me to claim 98% accuracy.

 

2. Camera tilt angle

I found compass is not quite good enough for camera angle. What tools do you use to measure the tilt angle? Does it have to be level at all time? No Tilt of camera?

I have sometime ago heard that Hayes Davidson use stitched photo for their VIS and they have got a way to legalize this. Not many project can fit in 50mm lens, especially in historical district. Can you fill in the details for this?

 

3. Legal and Liability insurance

Under which category should we take the insurance? Under building & construction? or Architecture? I have been asking around and everything under construction business will be charged in similar rate as the builders, huge $$$

 

I am really interested in this issue, but unless there is a way that I can say that I have redundantly cover all the accuracy issue, I don't feel safe.

Even with legal and liability insurance

[Virgil Johnson]

Virgil,

thanks for your post, i did this last week for my company, we wanted to put up 2 water towers in a high end community and the residents were freaking out..

 

but i just kinda eyeballed it using the approx tree heights and known water tower heights..

 

wish i could have read your post before....

 

thanks again..

 

What excellent news.

Swallow the the mistakes. Just do better each time.

This is one great business is it not?

 

A good way to measure the height of existing objects - if you cannot get the building plan - get a laser rangefinder.

They can be very helpful.

 

Yes. We had our share of people coming around.

Some had questions.

Most were curious.

Some had lawyers.

And in a couple of cases the authorities had to be brought in.

 

Hope you get to do a mountain top in summer. They are the best.

 

v

[pipjor]

Virgil,

i've only been asked to do 2 "visual impact" illustrations so i'm certainly no expert....

 

but the down side is on both of my studies there were protesters with signs opposing my companies proposed projects, and i personally didn't like the the negative vibe.....

[Ernest Burden III]

i personally didn't like the the negative vibe.....

 

How do people feel now about the water towers? That image didn't make me think it was 'no big deal', quite the opposite.

 

For anyone who attended my talk at the DVC last summer you'll know that I showed a rendering by Elizabeth day that managed to show a massive water tank right in the middle of the picture but you'd never know it. Art can do as much to allay people's fears as force-fed scientifics.

 

 

EDIT: Holy crap, that image is a lot bigger than it is used on her site. I'll have to re-size it and post again tomorrow.