Visual Impact Studies...breaking into it

[Ernest Burden III]

I considered getting into forensic animation and now I'm glad I just make pretty pictures and animations for a living.

 

My insurance company is trying to get a check from the company of a guy who took a corner too widely and hit the side of my car last summer. They asked me if I would be able to draw some sort of diagram showing what happened. I think I can do that. I'll not only use GoogleEarth, I'll have the photo of my actual car from it. in fact, I could make me "a pile of 8x10 glossy color photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin' what each one is".

[Tommy L]

Man, outstanding in his field, is killed instantly when a massive water tank is installed on his property.

 

...that joke was in danger of passing under the radar entirely unnoticed....

[Ernest Burden III]

...that joke was in danger of passing under the radar entirely unnoticed....

 

Thank you for noticing. I'm here all week.

[Virgil Johnson]

Thanks...and I agree with your comments. My clients are obviously easy on me!

 

For me personally though, visualization is about creating a strong memorable image not extreme accuracy (I got out of mechanical design for this very reason).

 

I considered getting into forensic animation and now I'm glad I just make pretty pictures and animations for a living.

 

I wonder where the line between visualization and visual impact is drawn.

Is it an industry defined line or is it defined by a customer's needs?

(I know they are clients to you but since I am a businessman...chuckle)

 

Let's see if I can get some images up this morning.

I want to get the quality you have provided.

 

virgil

[Virgil Johnson]

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This is the Town of Bedford (NY) water treatment plant.

 

The study was done in the summer of 1999.

 

If the photos are clear (hope) you can see how we have draped flagging across the existing reservoir for reference points.

The reservoir was to be filled in and the building placed there.

 

If you look to the left of the water) perhaps you can see the two field markers (poles)?

 

Lightscape helped with the rendering.

 

This project was built.

 

virgil

[Virgil Johnson]

Thes next photos are boring in themselves but I use them as an illustration of why scale and placement are very important.

 

This is view of Tonche Mountain (just minutes from my house) overlooking the Ashokan Reservoir (NYC water supply) with its spectacular views of the Catskill Mountains.

This project (Feb 02) was a "911" tower to be built for emergency communications between authorities in the area.

 

Even local government had to commission a visual impact study for the sensitive area.

 

I went out on this field study to insure accurate balloon readings.

It is a hard site to access - and at one point I was moments from jumping from my truck as it began to slide on ice over a cliff. Quick work from other crew members saved the day.

 

This tower was built.

 

(The white house off to the right is where David Bowie does some of his work.)

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v

[Virgil Johnson]

Just another boring simulation. Tower with buildings.

 

- Overlooking the Ashokan Reservoir you can bet we were accurate with this one.

 

Study done in March 02[ATTACH]18526[/ATTACH]

 

virgil

[Claudio Branch]

What happens after a specific structure is built?

 

Does your client require verification that your pre-construction images are an accurate depiction of what has been actually built?

 

Also, if your client believes that there is a discrepency, how is it determined that you or the builder or BOTH are at fault?

[Virgil Johnson]

This is the proposed Ulster Country (NY) Visitor's Center.

 

It was to be built in the traffic circle at the NYS Thruway in Kingston, NY.

 

Study done in Jan 03.

It was not built.

 

You can see our field markers at work.

 

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virgil

[Virgil Johnson]

What happens after a specific structure is built?

 

Does your client require verification that your pre-construction images are an accurate depiction of what has been actually built?

 

Also, if your client believes that there is a discrepency, how is it determined that you or the builder or BOTH are at fault?

 

Claudio:

 

From the beginning all projects were verified as to detail.

(Lots of calls to engineers and manufacturers. Lots of detail drawings.

Lots of documentation.)

 

All projects were reveiwed in the as-built stage.

 

Our projects were all very sensitive.

 

In the 800 or projects not one came into question.

Sometimes after the passage of time even we could not tell our sims from the as-builts.

 

You see why accuracy all along the line is so critical?

 

What if things go wrong?

I guess the corporate veil and the insurance would kick in.

 

virgil

[Virgil Johnson]

What happens after a specific structure is built?

 

Does your client require verification that your pre-construction images are an accurate depiction of what has been actually built?

 

Also, if your client believes that there is a discrepency, how is it determined that you or the builder or BOTH are at fault?

 

 

 

I add to what I said.

Mistakes were not allowed to happen.

The whole process of each study was carefully controlled throughout.

We were very meticulous.

[Sawyer]

I add to what I said.

Mistakes were not allowed to happen.

The whole process of each study was carefully controlled throughout.

We were very meticulous.

 

You may be more meticulous than many foremen I have known.

[Virgil Johnson]

This is a study done for St. Johns Law University in Queens, NY.

(12 03)

 

We have to show cell phone panels and equipment shelter to installed.

 

One photo is the existing.

One photo is my drawing aids - the flag pole markers, etc. have been carefully painted in Photoshop to help me see better what I am doing when I place my model.

 

The final is the final.

Look at the reference phototo help see what is different.

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v

[Virgil Johnson]

You may be more meticulous than many foremen I have known.

 

 

I can believe that.

I started life (after graduate school) as CA State Licensed General Contractor in San Francisco. (You know about that license.)

 

And I can tell lots of great build it wrong stories.

 

Are you old enough to remember the skyscaper they started to build upside down in SF - sometime in the early 80s?

Got to the second floor as I recall before they caught the mistake.

 

virgil

[vizwhiz]

This is probably not The same project Then?

 

There is 'famous' cartoon of a construction company digging furiously

Two people are standing in The foreground holding a set of building plans

 

one of Them calls Out.

 

"Stop The digging, Joe is holding The plans upside down.'

 

maybe This is no joke. i Thought it was extremely funny

 

**

 

i have done some site studies using balloons whose heights

were calculated by measuring The rope attached To Them

 

for city submittal To get a major project approved b4 The city next door

who was Trying To get Their project going 1st were actively sabotaging

 

The project That i was working on, Fun & Games. big Time

 

Randy

[Devin Johnston]

I'm actually amazed at the kinds of projects that Visual impact studies are used for; some of these are so minimal to the landscape I'm surprised anyone even cares if they are there or not. That's not a criticism of your work it's more of a comment on the ridiculous level that architects and developers must go to in order to not offend anyone.

[Virgil Johnson]

I'm actually amazed at the kinds of projects that Visual impact studies are used for; some of these are so minimal to the landscape I'm surprised anyone even cares if they are there or not. That's not a criticism of your work it's more of a comment on the ridiculous level that architects and developers must go to in order to not offend anyone.

 

I cannot tell how many times I felt the same way.

But in many more cases it was justified.

All in all it made for a lot of fun and a very good living.

 

v

[Virgil Johnson]

This is probably not The same project Then?

 

There is 'famous' cartoon of a construction company digging furiously

Two people are standing in The foreground holding a set of building plans

 

one of Them calls Out.

 

"Stop The digging, Joe is holding The plans upside down.'

 

maybe This is no joke. i Thought it was extremely funny

 

**

 

i have done some site studies using balloons whose heights

were calculated by measuring The rope attached To Them

 

for city submittal To get a major project approved b4 The city next door

who was Trying To get Their project going 1st were actively sabotaging

 

The project That i was working on, Fun & Games. big Time

 

Randy

 

 

Randy.

 

 

The story of the upside down building appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle along with pictures.

It really did happen.

 

Sabotage was often a problem. Several times crews would arrive at a site only to return home waiting until a new survey could be done.

 

Don't forget balloons are always moving. As they sway they change position and get lower in the sky.

It may not be apparent from the ground where it seems calm.

 

At 200 feet there is a lot of activity and the only way you see it is to measure the location of the balloons at the time of the photograph.

 

Not getting this right can get you into a lot of problems later.

 

virgil

[Andrew Schroeder]

Hi Virgil,

 

Interesting thread, I've been watching it closely for the last few days. I understand that no one wants to give away a good recipe, but I was wondering about your use of GPS. Are we talking trimble survey grade GPS units or handhelds with DGPS or WAAS? I ask only after seeing the St. John's University image, where you noted that GPS was used for the heights.

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew Schroeder

[Virgil Johnson]

Hi Virgil,

 

Interesting thread, I've been watching it closely for the last few days. I understand that no one wants to give away a good recipe, but I was wondering about your use of GPS. Are we talking trimble survey grade GPS units or handhelds with DGPS or WAAS? I ask only after seeing the St. John's University image, where you noted that GPS was used for the heights.

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew Schroeder

 

Andrew

 

My purpose in posting here is to give away the recipe.

 

GPS.

 

Was of no use prior to 2000. After the change we found limited used.

 

GPS including WAAS is not accurate enough for most of our uses.

Most of the impact studies were with viewpoints of 700 feet less.

Surveys (mostly done by us) using already located objects were more accurate than GPS.

 

GPS did come in handy for double checking camera locations that were a long distance from the target.

However we had already developed a technique using digital (mostly USGS - US Geological Survey) maps and we got good results.

Since we had to have the maps anyway we went with what worked best for us.

 

The GPS units were hand held and were not WAAS enabled.

 

The GPS notation in the photo is something more pedestrian.

It is a reminder to me that the field markers (now hidden by photoshop painting) gave the height to the top of the GPS masts (which you can see at the back left and front right of the equipment shelter).

 

virgil

[Virgil Johnson]

Well, folks this thread has had a good long run and I pleased to see that.

My intent was to introduce the specialized field of visual impact to those of you not familiar with it.

 

I hope this thread continues with more responses from others who are in the field.

 

As I said earlier, I don't know where the line between visualization and visual impact visualization is.

For me I guess it was the accuracy.

(The ability to predict the future?)

 

This field is expanding as the planet shrinks and we perceive that we have to take care of what we have.

 

I will still jump in on this thread now and then, but in truth I must be off to build a new drawing business.

I started out in 1993 with ACAD 10 and 3DSR2 and visualization has been my drawing world since.

 

So I guess I will find a new niche in that world with a new challenge to keep me happy.

 

virgil

[own1221]

Hey, I dont quite understand what are you talking about?

 

What is visual impact studies?

[aflack]

I think in the UK they are called verified images, it involves a surveyor going with a photographer to the site to measure all the heights of the surrounding buildings and there position.

 

Then placing the computer generated image into the photo and it being able to hold up in court. If the building doesn't look like it does in the montage when its built then someone gets sued, thats why you need really good insurance.

 

I thought this was some new type of image but basically its been around for years its just a really accurate photo montage that will hold up in court.

 

I guess every country calls it different things.

 

Its very common in London with most if not all visualisation firms offering this service. I work in an architects and we can't offer this service because we don't have the correct insurance.

[Hazdaz]

Ya know, this was a pretty darn interesting thread topic... even if it was from a year ago.

 

Definitely something I should be pursuing seeing as how I started off in the CAD/engineering field working with high-tolerance aerospace parts - so I am used to highly accurate models.

 

If anyone has any contacts in Connecticut, let me know.

 

 

Of course not to beat a dead horse with the comments about needing to be 1/10,000th of an inch accuracy is comical at best. You guys do realize that the heat from your hand would be enough to make a part change more than a few 10,000ths of an inch in size. And food for thought - a human hair is about 1/1000th of an inch think... so basically you guys are talking about accuracy 1/10th of the thickness of a human hair... in other words - absolute bullplop.

[own1221]

Just a few questions:

 

These images are used in court? - if they are images how come the measurements are so precise?! i mean are they going to use a ruler to measure it? a few hundred mm off shouldn't make that much of a difference unless there's something extremely fragile nearby.

 

I'd think things like materials and things like glare would be way bigger issues for this.

 

And just wondering have you been sued for an incorrect image? or have your images images been used in court and what part of the image was used?