archkre Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 How much would you charge in U$S to do a still for a buiding like this:http://www.cgarchitect.com/gallery/image_spotlight.asp?fileName=HouseJM1 How much time would take from first conversations with the client till you have the paycheck in your pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 I usually ask to see the drawings before giving an estimate, especially with a house design (and esp. this mediterranean style). There are more variables that could add significant amounts of time, like more of those damn columns!! Next I'll want to know about the view, if there will be more than one, possibilities for animation, etc., which will also change the estimates significantly. If there is only one view, you won't need to model things you can't see. Next, estimate the time it will take (I think I estimate about 5 hours per 1000 sq. ft. - but that could be off, I haven't done a house in a while), then go to this link: http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=000003#000001 and figure out how much you think you are worth. Add rendering time and anything else, multiply, and you have your fee. Doesn't directly answer your question, but you get an idea (5000 sq ft + x 50-120/hour = fee). These types of homes take as long to build as a multistory office complex because of all the annoying little details, not to mention the added polygons and rendering time. But, thankfully, people usually are paying absurd amounts for ridiculously large homes (the last one I did was 30,000 sq. ft.!) and will pay for the rendering. Don't be afraid to ask for a decent amount for these types, the architect is making bank on them. I'd like to see what others opinions are on this, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted November 19, 2002 Author Share Posted November 19, 2002 But in the sq. footage you have to include the exteriors/environment such as garden,swpools drives,walks,streets,signs,veggies,etc that usually take longer than the building itself! How do you consider that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Hi archkre, A good tip: sketch out your viewpoint and use your drawing to calculate what you'll need to render. This will give you a close idea of the price. rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted November 19, 2002 Author Share Posted November 19, 2002 How???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Yeah, there is always the entourage stuff, but you just have to estimate how long it will take, what the client is looking for (fountains, patterned pavings, etc.). Some can be really simple, with almost nothing beyond the model itself. Also consider if it will be done with 3D and RPC files in the render (which adds considerable time to them) or composited after. Just depends on the project. You take a educated guess, if it's wrong, you'll know next time, that's all. Personally I use a combo of 3D and RPC files with some compositing. This allows you to render the most important stuff (like the building itself) and mess with the other stuff with the time you have after. Gives you a better idea during the project what time you'll have to do the compositing (like a tight deadline it's more important to get the building rendered and then fuss with the extras, rather than have half the building done). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Why is it so difficult to answer something like this and no beating the bushes:! 1] For a building like the one you show I'd charge $xxx per still. 2] It would take me yyy days to completion 3] I deliver CD or printing or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Easy there fella ; ) ! I personally don't like to state what I charge because it varies depending on projects, schedules, etc. If I want the project, I'll work for less for a potentially beneficial relationship. If they want it in 2 days, it'll cost more to keep me up all night. There are just too many variables to declare one fee outright. I don't think it'd do anyone any good, either. A lot depends on how good you are. Are you fast? Are the drawings complete? Do you have a good eye for compositions? Do you have multiple computers to speed up renders? Etc., etc. I think that the information above is enough for you to make an assessment of fees, and you could look at peoples work and decide if you feel they are 'good'. In the end, it's up to you (assuming that you are asking how much to charge, not how much it'll cost you) to decide how much. People charge across the board, as with any profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Ok, I'll bite. I would charge $1800 or so and give a 24x30 print mounted on Gatorboard. Additional views would be $400 each including printing, mounting and lamination. John D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I understand your an architect. Do you feel you've been overcharged by the person who does your 3D? I've seen this post on at least 3 other sites with very much the same responce. If you are looking for competetive bids you should let everyone know up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 The image he is asking about is his own. I think he is just trying to justify his own pricing methods. If the only reason the client selects you is price, then you will always lose them. You need to find another factor. John D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted November 22, 2002 Author Share Posted November 22, 2002 I think you misunderstand my target. The way we charge our fees :"by eye", "by hart", "by hour", "by face of client" "as much as you can", "following our feelings" is not professional at all. We could for instance make some comparison with the architects' fees: According type of building: contemporary,mediterranean,etc " destiny of " :residential,corporate,school,etc According if the work is interiors or exteriors And with very "accordings" more ,it would be possible set a minimum fee let's say in percentage of sq. ft. or sq meters or another,under which it would be unethical to charge. But above that is only the sky! That is only my idea Have a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh1587140445 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Dude, do you not understand? What the hell do you do for a living? No one here has ever annoyed me like the way you do with your ignorance. 3/4 of your posts are competely ignorant. Do you not realize what everyone is saying when they can not tell you what to charge because there are so many damn factors in the equation. (ie. size of project, level of detail, due date, location, and even who the client is, and the list goes on) Do some research on your own for once. Jeff has posted this link many of times. Buy the damn book and read it.Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines Or just throw out a number. If they do not accept, you went to high. If they do great you got the damn job. [ November 22, 2002, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Josh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical GuidelinesThe GAG book is pretty good as a starting point, but you simply cannot set 'rates' that easily. Maybe you can, I can't. The best number is still 'what can you get away with'. The GAG book numbers are based on a survey of renderers. Most renderers of any professional standing end up being too busy to return the survey to the GAG. In the past the numbers have been out-to-lunch. But with the 10th Edition they had the sense to do some 'reality checking'. They contacted me to go over the results and see what made sense and what didn't. We eliminated several stupid catagories and just plain changed some off-target numbers. Also, I helped them get the business practices section for rendering in line with reality. (Check for my name in the acknowledgements as your seal of quality). I don't know what has been done for any newer editions of the PEGs, and the field has changed a lot in just the last few years. It's just too hard to put down a set of pricing numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Hi archkre, I don't understand your point: * On the one hand you want fixed prices - Why is it so difficult to answer something like this and no beating the bushes:! 1] For a building like the one you show I'd charge $xxx per still. 2] It would take me yyy days to completion 3] I deliver CD or printing or whatever - whereas on the other hand you keep adding variables yourself - According type of building / destiny / ext/int - which basicly contradicts your own question. To me, this sounds as silly as "how much does a car cost?". (what car? how big? what type?...) * If you don't find any way of charge professional - "by eye", "by hart", "by hour", "by face of client" "as much as you can", "following our feelings" - what way is professional in your opinion? Charging per square meter? How would you set up all categories (residential - commercial - etc.)? Would you make differences by style (eclectic - minimal - ornamentic)? Imho it doesn't matter how we charge as long as we get away with what we want. * You don't listen to any advice given by the professionals on this board. --> so what are you looking for? Trying to burn this place? What are you trying to achieve/proof? rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 Of course I do!: I ordered:Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 good Keep us informed rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 de ja vu. I saw pretty much the same conversation on the VRay forum. You're probably coming to realise the working out prices just isn't as easy as saying "oh, your building is this big, I'll charge this much" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Griger Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Ernest Burden: quote:Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical GuidelinesThe GAG book is pretty good as a starting point, but you simply cannot set 'rates' that easily. Maybe you can, I can't. The best number is still 'what can you get away with'. The GAG book numbers are based on a survey of renderers. Most renderers of any professional standing end up being too busy to return the survey to the GAG. In the past the numbers have been out-to-lunch. But with the 10th Edition they had the sense to do some 'reality checking'. They contacted me to go over the results and see what made sense and what didn't. We eliminated several stupid catagories and just plain changed some off-target numbers. Also, I helped them get the business practices section for rendering in line with reality. (Check for my name in the acknowledgements as your seal of quality). I don't know what has been done for any newer editions of the PEGs, and the field has changed a lot in just the last few years. It's just too hard to put down a set of pricing numbers. Hi Ernest! Well I have been trying to fine tune my rates based on my experience level, the income I need to bring in [based on D Wrights excellent article and some links in that thread!] and the GAG book. http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=000001 One thing mentioned in a link in the above thread is that we need to find out what others are charging. Looking at the GAG book it has three categories for full detailed archi renderings, based on low, med & high res sizes. 1. How accurate do you feel are the ranges that are mentioned in that book for the above? 2. also, I was looking at the animation section. Can these rates [they expressed different rates to charge per second] be applied for an archi animation? 3. is it typical to have extra fees charged for when the pic is used in advertising as the GAG book suggests? BTW, yes, Ernest’s ”Seal-O-Approval” is in there, like we would doubt TIA, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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