Starting to get work, what to $

[spanish pants]

i´ve been looking at the Jago´s post a few threads down http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/22390-hour.html and decided i needed to ask this question for the umpteenth time.

I´v just been asked by a potential client to give him a quote to do his new home in Bali in 3D and i´m stumped as to what to charge.

I´ve tried asking local arch viz guys (ballpark figures) what they charge but get the same answer " jeez that´s a tough question, it really depends"

I realize people don´t want the competition to undercut them and it´s true that pricing depends on certain variables.

I´m wary of undercutting because i know it leads down a dead end but i also don´t want to price myself out of the market.

I´d say my quality level was sort of middle of the road, not great but not horrible.

I´ve thought of charging by the hour but tossed that idea out. Currently i´m thinking of charging for the modeling and rendering separately.

I´d really appreciate the opinions of those who have gone through this.

[Tommy L]

The reason this comes up so often is because there is no answer. Charge what you want. Its like saying, 'I want to buy a rare fish and some mind-space, how much is it?'

You said youve asked local guys how much and they scratched their heads and says 'it depends'. Good for them, buy them a pint from me.

 

I know that s not helpful., so..... think about what your worth per hour, think how long the job takes, do the math. You'll get used to throwing a number at people after a while, but it takes experience.

[Limbus]

You should figure out how many days a year you can work an bill someone for it.

Lets say the year has 365 days. If you don't want to work on weekends that leaves 261 days. Subtract vacation, national holidays and illness and you will have something like 230 days. If you work 10 hours a day that makes 2300 hours but you cant bill them all. You will need time for things like education, paperwork, advertising, software and hardware updates and you will have downtime between jobs that you have to count in and some jobs take longer than calculated. Now you end up with a number that represent the maximum number of hours you will be able to write bills for. Now you calculate what amount of money you need to earn. Office rent, hardware, software, apartment rent, eating, taxes, insurance, saving plans, credit payback, clothing... and so on. Now you can estimate how much you will have to charge for an hour or a day. Depending on your local competition this figure could be to high or to low.

 

I probably forgot some stuff but I think its a good starting point.

 

Cheers, Florian

[jackb602]

Florian has given you a good overview. David Wright wrote a series of in depth articles on this subject as well. The most relevant one is here:

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/upclose/article2_DW.asp

 

Basically, you need to determine your hourly rate. Then estimate how long the project will take.

 

Jack

[Limbus]

Basically, you need to determine your hourly rate. Then estimate how long the project will take.

 

Jack

 

And then double that estimate (at least in the beginning) ;-)

 

Florian

[spanish pants]

Thanks for the responses guys, it helps. (venting ) I now have something to work from but it´s tough competeing with guys who charge 125€ for a single image. It´s too bad that in my parts the quote is valued more than the quality or the profesionalism of the artist, but i know that i have to set my rate and stick to it. I may lose contracts to the cheaper competition but c´est la vie.

 

Thanks all

[innerdream]

Thanks for the responses guys, it helps. (venting ) but it´s tough competeing with guys who charge 125€ for a single image. It´s too bad that in my parts the quote is valued more than the quality or the profesionalism of the artist, but i know that i have to set my rate and stick to it. I may lose contracts to the cheaper competition but c´est la vie.

 

Thanks all

 

I think you have the right idea. With the industry global and labor costs in some countries lower than others you'll have to research and find out what the average rate in your city is done by locals as a start. If you need the work then sometimes the fact is you will have to work cheaper than you might like. I think the best thing to do is look for better clients that "value" local hires and pay accordingly. They're out there and it's worth developing a relationship with those clients and pass on the low ballers.

[spanish pants]

I think it was more frustration that prompted the post. But i can´t complain now as i have more work than i can shake a stick at at this point.

 

I found starting off was not easy in this particular part of the country and in a market where the price is the bottom line. But i´m learning as i go along and sometimes when starting off "you need to take it in the backside" So i´m continually adjusting my prices to compete and hopefully in the future increase my rates. Many times i´ve gotten the standard " WHAT! that´s outrageous and i won´t pay it !" and on other occasions i get no complaints.

My main priority right now is to get known and have a reputation for quality and professionalism.

 

 

 

 

I think you have the right idea. With the industry global and labor costs in some countries lower than others you'll have to research and find out what the average rate in your city is done by locals as a start. If you need the work then sometimes the fact is you will have to work cheaper than you might like. I think the best thing to do is look for better clients that "value" local hires and pay accordingly. They're out there and it's worth developing a relationship with those clients and pass on the low ballers.

[Justin Hunt]

When prospective clients complain about overly high prices , even if they are competitive, I suggest they go with the companies that charge less and if they are happy with what they get great, but if not then come back to me and we will talk. More often than not they come back, and this time price isn't an issue. Some clients just need to learn the hard way.

 

JHV

[colinsmith]

As a rough rough starting point I'd charge about twice as much per hour as I wanted to paymyself. If I want $20 per hour in wages, I'd need to charge $40.

 

That might vary (a lot) depending if you need anything specific to the job, but in the long term I think that's a figure that works.

 

Of course, now you need to figure out how many hours work is in volved.... and it will be more than you expect. I'd try to fix the client on how many changes you will make for free at an easly stage too.

 

I have done projects where we just agreed an hourly rate and the client was free to change as much as they wanted, so it can work ok that way too - I did give them a good estimate for the total in the start though, and was able to keep pretty close to that.

[chiquito]

Celso, como punto de partida, tene en cuenta una base por hora de trabajo, digamos entre 15 y 18 euros, por poner un precio minimo a la hora de trabajo de modelado, de ahi para arriba dependera de la complejidad de la escena a modelar, por el tiempo de renderizado, el renderizado yo lo calculo dependiendo de si lo puedo hacer por la noche, o si dejo de trabajar durante el dia, o si saco el trabajo a renderizar a un render farm externo, eso para empezar, tienen razon en que le agregues un porcentaje al precio pedido, el doble me parece exesivo,siempre regatean y no queres salir perdiendo, pero pasar el doble para despues llegar a la mitad te hace quedar como un oportunista, en mi opinion, (pasas un nro y si pasa bien, si se queja, bueno lo bajo a la mitad? eso pareciera ser mas regateo tienda marroquí que de servicio de visualizacion profesional, sin animos de ofender a ningun marroquí). tengo un post mio, de un trabajo donde perdi muchismo tiempo y dinero por no haber aclarado bien estos temas. no queres pasarte del precio y perder el trabajo o que la calidad del trabajo no se encuentre a la altura del precio o que por otro lado te regales por poco dinero. Un calculo de horas estimadas de trabajo, separado por modelado, textureado, luces y renderizado, pueden ayudarte a tener una idea en cantidad de horas para tener en cuenta la cantidad a pasar, a eso yo le sumaria digamos un 30%, teniendo en cuenta que van a agregarte o modificar siempre algo, para tener un margen de moviemiento y seguridad, o simplemente para poder negociar el presupuesto del trabajo en un margen logico. Seria interesante aclarar a partir de que margen de trabajo empiezan a correr adicionales y a que precio.

Ese precio base por hora tendria que darte un margen competitivo, siendo que por un modelo bien hecho podes sacar varios renders, haciendo que los rindes por hora trabajada aumenten con la cantidad de imagenes.

El margen ese es uno que logre establecer mirando algunos precio por hr pagados en diferentes lugares, adaptando los nros dependiendo de si son en U$, Euro o libras, pero ronda por ese nro para empezar, de ahi para arriba depende de la calidad, la velocidad de produccion de uno mismo, etc.

Espero sirva, por lo menos a mi me da un margen para poder vivir y trabajar, mucha suerte

Martin

[Tommy L]

When prospective clients complain about overly high prices , even if they are competitive, I suggest they go with the companies that charge less and if they are happy with what they get great, but if not then come back to me and we will talk. More often than not they come back, and this time price isn't an issue. Some clients just need to learn the hard way.

 

JHV

 

Good advice.