Internal Lighting With Vray Sky / Sun & Physical Cam

[JamesTaylor]

Using the Vray Sun and Sky properly for the 1st time i'm work on an animation where the camera moves from an external location to an internal location and then again to an external view. The final shot moves out from an open living area onto a balcony overlooking the sea and will close by watching the sun set...

 

My question is regarding being able to light an interior space using the Vray Sun & Sky combined with the physical camera instead of placing area lights over the windows and using standard Cameras... Has anyone used this method or do we still need to supliment the Vray Sun & Sky with extra area lights?

 

I note that when i use a standard camera internally whilst the Sun & Sky is present i just get a white screen being rendered which i assume is because there is way too much light present in the scene... or are the two simply not compatible.

 

From my attached images you'll see that i've managed to achieve i reasonable result in the example with large windows but only seem to achieve very blochy results when a small window is present. Both images are rendered with the same settings except for FStop and Iso configuration.

 

any thoughts??

[aaron-cds]

This rendering was done with the vray sun & sky with a physical camera. No additional lights were used. It's possible.

[Trevor Tizard]

I've done a couple of external images with the Sun/Sky and Physical Cam and recently looked at internals too. Seems you would still need two camera set-ups and still need to comp them together to move from inside to outside and vise versa.

[aaron-cds]

wow!!!really just vray sun and physical cam,,,would it be to much to ask if u can teach me how to do that,,,id really appreciate it,,,

 

I'm not a teacher, but I can say that it's just about getting the correct exposure with the physical camera. That's it.

[JamesTaylor]

Aaron,

 

did you find you had to pump up a lot of the render settings to achieve the quality of render you have? and what sort of render time did you achieve on that image (plus at what res)

 

as you can see from my images there is a lot of blotchness, which i've tried to overcome by increasing the subdivs of the sun, the IrrMap, image sampler (rQMC) etc. etc. also tried substancially increased the no. of secondary bounces which worked quite well, but all these substancially increased render time. Overall, i felt what i was tring really wasn't that efficient???

 

Could you post your settings for the scene, would make interestesting viewing!!

 

I figure that in theory it should be absolutely possible given that the sun and sky value now replicate those of the real world as do the features and controls of the physical camera.

 

Finally i must say that is a great image for a 9 year old!!!!!

 

cheers

 

 

 

Trevor,

 

i anticipate having to render two passes and create the transition in post to mimick moving outside, i'm planning on rendering .RPF files with objectID's included and only fading the external elements... i think it would be better (or most likely that the clients comments will be along the lines of seeing both the internal details and the external scene with the same clarity, which we all know is bending physics!!). However, if it looks odd i'll just go for a straight fade of the entire image.

[batteryoperatedlettuce]

The quality of that rendering is great - I'd like to know about the IM + LC settings.

[aaron-cds]

I applied the principles of this method - float baby float

 

http://www.chaosgroup.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17824

 

note: this method is for exteriors but with a little experimentation it can work for interiors.

[kippu]

very interesting and i thought no one uses that ....do you do the same on your exteriors

[JamesTaylor]

Aaron,

 

thanks for the link... i'd already had a little play with similar render settings to those used in the tut (i.e QMC & LC) but i have missed a big chunk which is what was primarily illustrated in the videos... guess that means for this one i'll have to go back to the standard methods since i have deadlines to meet but i'll be giving it a go nexttime round!!

 

Thanks

[aaron-cds]

very interesting and i thought no one uses that ....do you do the same on your exteriors

 

absolutely, it's a great method. it's more accurate and clean than the old inverse gamma method and the render times are less.

[kippu]

hmmm i should try it sometime then ...thanks

[deanomagino]

This rendering was done with the vray sun & sky with a physical camera. No additional lights were used. It's possible.

 

how is it possible???

 

i saw your image in the 3d world arch viz suppliment and it is stunning...

i have tried the same technique with sun and physical cam but cant seem to get it to work...

 

played around with f-number, iso, shutter speed also sun intensity but only change the brightness rather than get a balance of light in the room.

[drvox]

I've been working on a way to use only vraysun &sky for interior scenes, cause with that render times get really short... Perhaps I'm not doing the right things, but here are the conclusions I got...

 

 

I found some problems on that...for instance if you have a room with a little window, you'll get all burned near the window (even with exponential colour mapping) and in the other side of the room there is no light.

But if you have a smooth floor surface in white or soft grey diffuse, you can set the Generate GI value to 2 or 3 and there you have more light without increasing a lot render times. This won't work if you have a wood floor cause everything becomes brown..

 

Other problem is that if you see some objects in the exterior, to have a nice lightning inside, outside everything will be burning...so in that cases I reduce the Receive GI value to 0,5 or even 0,2 in the outside objects...

 

 

Here is attached a scene playing only with vraysun, vraysky, Receive GI value, Generate GI Value and colour mapping.

 

 

King Regards

[deanomagino]

i have tried a fewq things firstly hcnaged camera angle see what differences there were there...

then tried changing primary bounces to 3 then the second down to 0.5

lightened the shading of the walls...

 

still not quite getting the light to fill the room...

[Zdravko Barisic]

This rendering was done with the vray sun & sky with a physical camera. No additional lights were used. It's possible.

 

 

Yes, with 3-4 big windows, maybe even more windows outside camera view, walls with old brick, which are noise itesl, as the wood, yes it is possible.

But with clear white walls, it is almost imposible, I do not count on 48h render times

[aaron-cds]

Yes, with 3-4 big windows, maybe even more windows outside camera view, walls with old brick, which are noise itesl, as the wood, yes it is possible.

But with clear white walls, it is almost imposible, I do not count on 48h render times

 

You're right. I recently learned that adding vraylight planes at each window gives enough power to get rid of the splotches without changing the light quality of the sun. The brick material in my loft rendering is hiding some splotches.

[JamesTaylor]

I've been waiting for you to appear in this thread Aaron!!

 

You're right. I recently learned that adding vraylight planes at each window gives enough power to get rid of the splotches without changing the light quality of the sun. The brick material in my loft rendering is hiding some splotches.

 

i'd kinda figured as much but wasn't totally convinced i that i wasn't missing some magical tweak to a setting somewhere!! I have to say tho that reducing the adaptive value in the rQMC does help but at the expense of render times.

 

can you elaborate a little on your settings for internals (loft) without giving all your secrets away??? i'm most interested in how far above the traditionally accepted high values (irr 50 / hSph 40) your finding you need to go to finid good results?

 

finally are you finding that when you've added the Vray Plane Lights your render times are increasing dramatically???

[JamesTaylor]

I've been waiting for you to appear in this thread Aaron!!

 

woops!! i see you have posted in this one already!! getting my posts mixed up here.

 

i've actually been waiting for you to post in this, very similar thread!!

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/24738-vray-sun-phys-cam-interior.html

[Zdravko Barisic]

@Aaron, Taylor

 

From my internal "researches" I found this:

 

1st Scenario: Just Vray Sun/Sky

-You have to go with Adaptive sampler as aQMC will much increase render time, that will make problems to reflections and render them very long, as every interior has at least 20-30% glossiness (floor etc...) it is not good, also with aQMC render time will higher "by difoalt"

Then, you have to play with HSV color mapping or to use Vray camera, I also discovered that it takes about 5-10% or even much more time to render with Vray sun then with Direct.

 

2nd Scenario: Classic scen Vray plane lights+Direct

-You can easuly go with aQMC and get less problems with glossy reflexions, render time for the similar quality is about two times less.

 

This is what I saw on one scene, probably some other will give another or even oposite effects, I do know, but one thing Im 99.9% shore> I will never go again with vr sun for interior it takes much more time to render, and for tweaking, probably I'll go with the old fashion way (vrat plane light etc...)

 

....

 

I also must add this: Vray sun/sky scenario gives a somehow better light distribution then classic one but it is very hard to see, just if you look at two same images

[aaron-cds]

I've been waiting for you to appear in this thread Aaron!!

 

 

 

i'd kinda figured as much but wasn't totally convinced i that i wasn't missing some magical tweak to a setting somewhere!! I have to say tho that reducing the adaptive value in the rQMC does help but at the expense of render times.

 

can you elaborate a little on your settings for internals (loft) without giving all your secrets away??? i'm most interested in how far above the traditionally accepted high values (irr 50 / hSph 40) your finding you need to go to finid good results?

 

finally are you finding that when you've added the Vray Plane Lights your render times are increasing dramatically???

 

It's very difficult to give an answer because every scene is different. I was playing with the classroom scene lately and I was able to get a splotch free result with medium render times. You just have to keep experimenting. The classroom scene is a good one to experiment with. Here's the thread at vizdepot - http://www.vizdepot.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6818

[Mondrian]

hello, idont speak english verywel ....sorry.. i use vray sun for exterior render

i cant use for interior render...i use vray light for interior render...

 

tks..

[cerbul]

hello everyone, my first post here

this is the best discution about render settings that i've ever seen.

what would be really usefull about settings is someone to tell us how to the following things.

1. when i get too much noise in the darker part of the room, asuming that i use environment light only,what are my options.

2. when i get in final render, in the darker part of the room light dots that are looking simmilar to the ones that I get in in test render, using light cache for both primary and secondary bounce.

3. when i get an image that is looking foggy, because i tryed to raise al values, to get more light.. what is the solution.

 

wich would be the best settings for a bathroom 4 x 3 m and 2.40 heigth, with a small window of 46x60 cm, on the 3 m wall, on the upper part of it.

the only solution i have is something like this:

 

irradiance map intensity 2 + lightcache intensity 1

irradiance map + cattmul rom

1000 subdivs light cache

environment color override intensity 20

exponential color mapping, 2.5 dark and 2.5 light multiplier.

 

has anyone better settings? can't get to make it look real.

there is not enaugh light in the room. if i make it so that to don't be burned near the window get weak colors and alot of noise.

if I make it lighter, the strange dots (render test-like dots) will appear.

and if I increase more the settings to get more light I get fog and the wall tiles lines (both the space between tiles and the texture of the tiles) won't be visible enaugh. any advice would really be appreciated. not able to make screenshots now, but hope i'll be able to do that soon.

[Nic H]

Iv been using the 2.2 lele LWF method sun sky and phys cam as outlined in that chaos thread and have found it GREAT for externals and good for internals, once you get used to measuring the white point then adjusting your ISO you get great even exposure which is easy to tweak in post to get blow outs etc.

 

Id recommend trying that tutorial.

Works well on internals as well, but like said above I often add other lights, usually another vray plane or 2.

[Jeffrey]

This won't work if you have a wood floor cause everything becomes brown..

King Regards

 

Try to use Vray Override Mlt. Cheers:)

[wizuby]

Aaron,

 

Question? Are you working with a linear workflow? Seems like the sun works best with that. It gives nice exposure to the shadows. You're images look really well exposed so I am just wondering.