Gander0 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Hi all! This is my first Architectural Vis though have been using max for a couple of years. Have been working on this project far too long and am still not achieving anywhere near the quality of work I have seen and want, part of the problem is my lighting and render (Vray) which im not quite used to yet. I anyone has the time I would like to know how people are setting up they're exterior lighting. This scene uses the Sun free directional light in Max, should i be adding fill lights and back lights like i do with product shot? Or should I use Vray lights? Also Im keen to fill the surrounding area and animate the scene, any ideas on this? The viewports are pretty painfully slow at the moment so any polygon full trees could be a problem. Any help is greatly appreciated as I would very much like to get this done and dusted. Gander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sorry here are some images http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test01_2.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test03_2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Well, nothing to say about your model. It's really great. For the lighting, on the other hand, there's a lot of room for improvement. You're using VRay, right? Well, be sure to use VRay shadows instead of shadow map or raytraced. Also, be sure to turn on the GI feature, otherwise your lighting will be as flat as any scanline render (that's happening here). Post your settings for render and I may be able to help you! [] Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Thanks very much for the response Rick! Here is a image with GI turned on and the settings. When I look through the splotches I can see what you mean, its much more like what i'm looking for (Quite chuffed :ngesmile: ). I guess its my settings thats causing the new problems? As you can understand the rendertime has increased considerably, are the solutions saved at all for animation purposes? I will lower the lights multiplier for my next render. http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test04.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=settings_7.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Yes, besides all those splotches, that's more like it! Anyway, let's see what you can do here... 1)set the secondary bounces to 0.75 or so... 2)lower light multiplier, 1 or 0.7 should do. 3)start with the irradiance map preset as "low", to give you a hint of what's going on (turn "show calc phase" on as well) 4)under Environment, turn on "override Max's" and set it to 0.85 or so. The white bg is bleaching the lighting. If that doesn't remove all the splotches, try this highly professional procedure : change the geometry colors all to white. Don't ask me why, but it works sometimes. For the solution "save as" feature, it is not only for animations. You can render the whole calculation with a not so high resolution and re-use that solution at any time, with no need to recalculate (saves time). Hope it helps. [] Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Cheers again, though having a bit of trouble with the splotches again. Below are my new settings and another rendering. Were you suggesting to just apply a white material then re-apply the scene materials? The scene is made up of different xref scenes and my material libraries aren't in great order so I don't want to rush straight into this as it could turn into a bit of a nightmare. Was wondering if there are any other options before i go into each of the scenes and adjust? http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test07.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=settings_8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Weird... What version of VRay are you using? Originally posted by Gander0: Were you suggesting to just apply a white material then re-apply the scene materials?Not, really. You see, when a new geometry is created, Max automatically assigns a random color to it (for example, when you draw a box, it comes out in a random color, replaced on the render when you assign a material, but still visible in the wireframe display). In your scene you have green and purple geometries, mostly. I don't know if there's really a connection, but I had this same problem once and noticed the splotches were the same color as the geometry wireframe. When I changed it to white, the splotches were gone. Also, be sure to apply UVWMap to all geometries (don't use Mapscaler) and, in case your using bitmaps in your textures, turn the "Apply Cropping" to the bitmap (just turn it on, nothing more). Let's see if that helps. :angewink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 Cheers Rick, will give it a go and let you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pailhead Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I think those red spots and bloches are due to those xrefs and probably because you're using a lot of groups there. Bray had problems like that in the past thats probably it. try explodin them all and attaching as many meshes as you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyctea scandiaca Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hmm .. strange ... I experienced the same problem too before. I suspect it's because of any raytrace that you use for reflection/refraction. After I replace it with VRayMap, no splotches anymore. BTW, what's the warning in the VRay window? [ January 08, 2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: nyctea scandiaca ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Thanks for your input people! Think the problem lies with my mapping. As this was a learn as you go project, the objects i did at the begining were pretty badly mapped as a result im in the process of remapping these. For anyones future reference its easy to go back to Max's scanline renderer and see where the missing map warnings appear. Will post again soon with my results Thanks Gander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joosti Ink Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Hello, the problem you have with the splotches are probably because did not put an UVW modifier to to objects that have maps as material. Also checking the apply cropping/placement option in the bitmap parameters helps. Third, make sure you never use higher pecular levels than 100. I think these are the most important checks for getting rid of splotches. If it doesnt help, there is a good checklist on the forum at the vray site, do a shearch on it and you will find what you need. good luck. Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 12, 2004 Author Share Posted January 12, 2004 Thanks Bart... Your right it was a lack of UVW mapping on some of the earlier sections of the piece that were causing the problems. Here are some more images. http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test04_3.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test05_3.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test06_1.jpg Any opinions appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test03_3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joosti Ink Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Interesting model, with great detail. i like te rooftile mapping. What about some reflection on the glass? the wall stones could use some bump and reflection. Different background would also help, or try a spherical HDRI map. good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Ha, now we're talking! :ngelaugh: It looks waaaaay better without the splotches! :winkgrin: I like the model, very detailed. Also, the lighting looks good. Maybe you should change the sun's position in order to have it casting more dramatic shadows, cuz you really have some great geometry to work with. After that, add some props to the surroundings and you're set! [] Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 Thanks again Rick and Bart. Will try and get some reflections going and go for more vivid shadows. As for props....any ideas? I havn't got and cant afford any plug-ins. This Abbey is set in the middle of Paris so is surrounded by buildings but i dont want to do too much more modelling, Here is an image that i did some of the modelling from. http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Good-Perspective-from-above.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I know what you mean...And, to be honest, there's the danger of any other elements to look worse than the building and literally kill the image. I would go the safe way: add a street and sidewalk (you won't have much trouble detailing them) and maybe, but just maybe, some cars and trees and a few people (not many). Just to give a sense of scale. Other than that would be, imho, too much. [] Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 Out of interest Rick, where can i find trees and people to put into these kind of scenes? Did a search of the site and found plenty of plugins for trees, not many free ones though. Did however play round with itoosofts free tree plugin, though i seem to get a white edge where the opacity mapping is applied to the edges. As for people, do you use 3D people or is it generally a case of compositing 2D cutouts once rendered? Will leave cars out as I want to leave the period open. Cheers Gander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.H.B Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 hey gander0 the image is getting better, that´s for sure. About the trees try to find some pics with an interesting tree or shrub and edit it on ps..works great some times, but you wanna make sure that the lighting on the tree is similar to the one you are using in your model. About the Sun...rick, i know you are a great user of vray, and i just wanna know wa kind of light do you thing works better in exterior scenes... thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 hi There Gander0 here is a Link to a List of Links, some Free: Trees: http://www.viz2000.com/html/alfa/tree.html Landscape, (similar but different): http://www.viz2000.com/html/alfa/landscape.html People: http://www.viz2000.com/html/alfa/people.html Cars (you said you are leaving out but for later reference): http://www.viz2000.com/html/alfa/cars.html **** maybe you could find some phtographs of People with "period" costumes and That might give it a more medieval effect (if That is something that you want to do) **** hope This is helpful, if you or anyone find Other Links please send Them in, i like to collect "missing links" Thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Hi, Gander0! Besides the links VizWhiz posted, I would also try www.animax.it. It's an italian website with tons of images you can download for free and use. I like to take the people and place tham in the scene using Photoshop (plus, adding some motin blur to get rid of the lighting differences between my image and the photos). For the trees, go to Marc Lorenz's web page and you'll find lots of plugins, most of them really great, including TreeShop. M.H.B.: For the sun, I normally go for Direct lights, even when I'm not using VRay. That's because the shadows casted by the sun are always parallel, and only a target direct or free direct can do that. In case of interiors, I use a spot placed very far from the scene and activate area shadows to give that afternoon feeling with somewhat diffuse shadows. [] Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 Thanks Vizwhiz, very generous of you, and again Rick your help is proving invaluable. First image is a photoshop composited image, I know the skys off, but im having trouble finding good maps. http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test_13.jpg Next are yet more tests, Bart suggested previously that i increase the reflection in the window which im stuggling with. As all the frames are made from the same bump and opacity, map I guess i need to create another map for reflection with a midtone color as the panes? http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test02c.jpg Sort of becoming blinded to everything because it getting so slow, nowhere near finished but id thought id update and see what anyone has to say. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gander0 Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 Had some trouble uploading, heres some more: http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test03c.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test04_4.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=test06c.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 That's a great model Gander0. Nice images too. The rendering has really improved with the help of the guys on this thread. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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