speed of cad

[sdds]

I am putting this in the general section because its not really software specific.

 

I have been working for a few days in a small architectural practice learning the basics of autocad. Doing a bit of 2d drawing and cleaning floor plans for use as 3d starting points etc. The view in the office is that hand drawing can be produced much faster than the same plan in cad. I know my knowledge of building design and autocad is low, but have found some things quite slow to do in this application.

 

Would like to here other peoples view on this, I know that learning the industry standard is important but it seams strange that a skilled architect can zip through a whole plan faster than someone on a comp.

[mbowers]

For the old school architects and designers, they can produce initial design plans very fast and accurately. As my mentor has said before "i've been sacking groceries for 30 yrs" basically, it's a repetitive 2nd nature to them. Honestly, i can draft faster than i can hand draw, but the real key comes to editing and modifying. One thing that slows us CAD architects down is laying the sheets out, proper layers, lineweights, what fits in the view port and what doesn't, are all the text heights the same, plotting, replotting, computer acting goofy...etc. I think there are draw backs to both, but it's been years since i've used a Mayline and i probably won't return anytime soon...

[STRAT]

that doesn't suprize me. some architects are very fast draftsmen. it also sounds like the office you're in contains peeps who aren't as cad literate or experienced as they should be. a hand drawing might be produced as fast if not faster in some instances, but generally cad will ALWAYS produce the goods allot faster (if the operator is fully cad fluent).

 

and of course, coming from an established cad technician, a cad drawing will be cleaner, neater, editable, flexible etc etc. and any architect who claims other wise is either a dinosaur (my office contains a few), ignorant or stupid. these are the fellers who'll either fall behind soon or are the bosses who have no reason to care.

 

bottom line is, even though the initial drawing in cad might not be as fast as one hopes, at least it's then done and can be used as a base for other cad drawings. a hand drawing is a one off that can only be changed with the dreaded razor blade.

 

nice to hear you got employment though mate. stick at it, it only gets better.

[mac3d]

everything is slow in the beginning. I've been working with autocad now for 17 years - and I come from a hand drafting background - which I loved doing. I was forced into computers when I joined the workforce - I didn't know a thing about computers - now I put my own computers together and still 3d model with Autocad. In fact, I feel the steep learning curve that accompanies autocad actually helped me learn other programs even quicker. The next thing right now is BIM. We'll see if it's really all it's cracked up to be. I think it's harder nowadays because you have so many programs to chose from - all equally powerful. Just have to remain flexible and patient. I'm running mac and pc hardware and apps right now - and I'm about to check out this whole linux thing. Well - gotta go - currently working with a client that is in real estate development that uses yet another different program involving database information management - it's not exactly what I wanted to do for these guys, but hey, it opens the door of possibilities to do 3d work for them as well - on top of that, I'm just adding to my skillset. Later...

[sdds]

thanks for your input chaps...Its really just a bit of work experience m8, need to learn autocad. Not really doing 3d much at the mo but will get back to it soon. I believe you start your modeling in cad Strat, is that right? Haven't touched 3d in this app yet maybe next week, its not really a mission learning the program, its all the technical parts of architecture that I don't quite understand - I am not an architect:D

[Sawyer]

If you had to set up each project from scratch in cad it wouldn't be worth it. Its like typing most people learn to write before they type and it may be much quicker to write out something than learn Word and how to type. But word processors are great at making changes to existing documents. And if you work with simular documents all the time you can set up templates that make your work much faster.

[rotten42]

This is interesting. I remember when I couldn't design or layout anything without a pencil and some tracing paper......then I remember them having to pry my Tablet from my cold dead fingers...now I can't design or draw a thing on paper anyway near as fast as on my computer. I guess it comes down to where you live every day...on paper or on screen.

[joseph alexander]

Apparently,

at my office before we implemented CAD; projects had teams six times larger then they do now. There were people who focused solely on area calculations. First there was paper, then these mylar overlays, then Cad was just used for elevations, then everything. The real setback with hand drafting was tabulations of number strings, things had to be checked again and again.

 

What I do find interesting is that the old school guys at my office 40+ years of experience tend to think a lot more before they mark a line or say something. I don't think it's because they're older, i think it's because there was more a repercussion of laying things out without thinking them through back then. Their drawings are immaculate as well. Now you have all this 3D stuff and you try 100s of variations, and fixing mistakes is so easy. Things now are in this Hyperactive production mode.. Not better or worse just different. I guess the thing that's interesting to me is how you draft effects how you think.

 

-Joe

[sdds]

Thanks guys, I defiantly need more architectural knowledge, sort of started at the modeling/rendering end and am lacking the basics of putting a building up..any books you would recommend for the bare basics of architecture.

 

As far as I understand to be successful at arch viz I will need:

 

1) A good understanding of the basics of architectural drafting. (haven't got this)

2) An artistic eye, knowledge of colour, light, composition etc (everything that makes up traditional art, have a background in fine art & graphic design so feel this is adequate)

3) Software, rendering etc all technical computer skills (more to learn but I feel my rendering skills are ok but definitely can be improved).

[vizwhiz]

any good cad jockey can 'undo' faster Than any good hand drafter can erase

 

besides

 

accuracy is way more important Than speed!

just like good beer is more important Than H2O

 

i have seen some hand drafters literally cut Their 36x24 and move it over

and splice in some extra paper just To re-center The project on The sheet

 

go figure

 

now That is a lot easier-ly accomplished with a computer

 

randy

[ChooChoo]

This is why I prefer Revit over AutoCAD. Editing. Someone makes a change, you don't HAVE to go and change every page that you made, every section detail, every sheet. It's done!

 

A good CAD guy and a good hand drawer are both assets. In the end, technology is gonna trump.

[mbowers]

One last comment from me... is our office is moving to a new building. In our process we've been tossing old document sets that are 40-60 years old. The level of detail in those hand drafted documents is breath-taking and there is something about a hand-drawn plan, that "human touch" that makes it so much better. While i agree with comments about accuracy taking the cake over speed, i still believe that the realm of architecture has forgotten the lost art and craft of drafting....

[leoA4D]

mbowers, that is so true; that visual character brought to hand drawing by a talented hand is a loss.

 

OTOH, who misses the wobbling T squares, restringing Mayline parallel bars, Spirolls, unclogging Rapidograph pen nibs, 4mil mylar, temperamental plastic lead, press type and scum bags. Parametrics and 3D (from day one) - and maybe BIM - are the "now" CAD for operators.

 

I wonder if real human character - as opposed to software mimicy - will ever make it into CAD drawings?

[ChooChoo]

How about the nice ammonia smell? mmmmmmmm

[leoA4D]

Yep, for cleaning out the sinuses and tear ducts - and printing, too. Forgot that one.

[Hazdaz]

Using AutoCAD I'll smoke anyone drafting on paper.... as long as the level of detail and level of accuracy is the same.

 

Yea, if you wanna sketch something out, you most definitely can do it faster on paper, but huge difference between sketches and detail drawings.

[Geoffc]

Try Building Construction Illustrated for starters. http://www.amazon.com/Building-Construction-Illustrated-Francis-Ching/dp/0471358983/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9724479-2128011?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179288127&sr=8-1

 

Hand drafting does look so much better than cad dwgs. And, it forces you to consider each and every line you put down. That's one of the biggest drawbacks to cad, it allows you to copy/paste without thought from previous drawings, in the interest of time, and perpetuate errors.

 

That all being said, hand drafting for production is like comparing a typewriter to a modern pc. You just dont do it in the modern world. Changes, file sharing, efficiency in pre drawn objects, etc are all part of efficient production.

 

Oh, and btw, i'm a semi-expert at Autocad, and even do my 3d modeling in it, but must admit that BIM is very intriguing, seeing that at it's foundation, Autocad is nothing more than hand-drafting on computer. ie, the way we create drawings, elevations, sections is the same thing you learned in your 7th grade drafting class.

 

oh, one more random thought: 2 types of people never get how difficult changes are late in an Autocad set: noobs that forget to follow through the rest of the sheets, and cad-illiterate managers that have no idea of the time and effort involved for carrying through "small changes" correctly. That's what I home BIM will solve.