archkre Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Take a look at this,please: http://www.designcommunity.com/discussion/29056.html What can we do about this "cheap people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 hmm....it says "from $150" on their website. They surely must charged more than that. How can they stay in business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Elemental Watson: They can stay in bussiness because they live and work in countries where u$s150 is a fortune! For instance in New Delhi, India you can live 1 month or more with 150 bucks! this is called "Unloyal competence" [ September 04, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: archkre ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jucaro Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Thats the advantage of outsourcing abroad. If the quality of workmanship is just almost the same as the ones you have localy, and still able to meet deadlines, then why not outsource? My off-shore clients even prefer outsourcing here just because of the cost alone. The $100 per view we charge here can beat anytime the $100 per hour which our foreign counterparts charge there. And yes, local cost-of-living play a big part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Jucaro: What you and others do is "unethical practice" and it is despicable and in some countries is punished by the law! So everything goes! Ok, I'll start charging 20 Euros/23 dolars per image with the best possible quality, including a surprise bonus with the purchase! [ September 04, 2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: archkre ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyanide Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 It's not "unethical" it's capitalism. While it could potentially cost me/the company I work for money, most folks still prefer to shop at home. By the time everyone is comfortable enough with buying and selling accross the net (and globe), the companies/individuals in countries where this work can be done cheaper won't be the problem, the problem will be that *everyone* will be able to do it while drawing their plans and elevations in their native CAD software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jucaro Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Why would that be unethical? We buy software at the same cost as our US/Euro or wherever counterparts. At the rate we charge our clients, the Return-of-Investment takes too long to even reclaim cost of software alone. Add that to our operating cost and other over-head expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Even Capitalism has its rules: there are things or illegal practices you can't do like: Selling products at loss to try to eliminate a competitor/Dumping/and many others. Under the name of the Capitalism you can not do anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Knourek Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Originally posted by archkre: Even Capitalism has its rules: there are things or illegal practices you can't do like: Selling products at loss to try to eliminate a competitor/Dumping/and many others. Under the name of the Capitalism you can not do anything! I normally try to stay out of these threads but you are saying its illegal to sell products at a loss like these people in India are selling there renders for $150usd and up and yet you say that they can live on the $150usd for a month. So if they are turining out renders every 2 to 4 days making any where from $1125usd to $2250usd from 1 work station in their economy as you describe it, how are they loosing money? Im not trying to start anything or be some kind of smart a$$ but looks like if they get enough work in they can make good money in their country. I agree though that companys like this can hurt others in other countries offering services for much less than you or I can afford to bill. -dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmoron13 Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I know you're just starting s*it like usual, but in this case, I think you've gone too far. You're now not only directly insulting others on here, but you're also falsely claiming illegal practice, which by the way, can be construed as illegal in itself (note: character defamation)... that being said...i look forward to the next "claim."...they're always hillarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Once again, DannyK - lives in Florida or is it Lithuania, whatever your name is, is at it again. He has posted this exact same topic at the VRay forums. Same responses as well. Oh Danny....freedom of speech I guess.... That said, why do you really care if a firm in India charges $150 USD per rendering? Why do you buy chef knives at Target with a German brand name stamped on it but it says made in China? Or why do you buy a CPU made in Taiwan? How about your sandals made in Costa Rica? It's cheaper of course. As someone else pointed at in the VRay forums, at this price you can expect little to nothing in the visualizer/client communication and in the long run cost more money??!! Anyway...why not let someone in India make some money if they can. I honestly don't think this is hurting anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 move to india then danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 If you feel sick about my posts: 1)Why do you read them? It is not mandatory, you can skip them. 2)Why do you waste your valuable times answering those nonsense comments/oppinions/judgements/statements? Just pass onto the next one, which sure is more interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 5, 2003 Author Share Posted September 5, 2003 CGwork for $150 is very interesting to me! When I have to make an estimate for a rendering , these clients ask me why is there so huge the $$$$ difference. If that point is not interesting enough for you at least now you are aware somebody is foul playing your bussiness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Danny, This is capitalism and that is how is works. If you can't compete on price, assuming your clients in FL are even pitting you against renderers from other countries, then you should spend time coming up with some marketing to show why going with you is better. (Things like you are local and work the same hours as they do, they are supporting the local economy, you can offer better products?, you can offer them better one on on service etc etc) If you can't compete on any of these then you either just need to deal with the fact that you can not win all bids or improve your work or business offereings so that you are more attractive to the local companies. If none of that works and people locally just don't want to pay that much, then either shift your marketing outside of FL or move to a better city for this type of work. Many rendering firms do not just do work in their own backyards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyanide Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Interesting link, very good points. I'll need to put that link somewhere safe and make a point of reading it before I post replies to anything that riles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Knourek Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Just an interesting article from a thread in the V-Ray/Take5 forum. http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm -dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Alexander Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Jeff, AMEN!!!!!!!!! rgrds WDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choochee Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I'm also MAD about all this "wannabees".... here I have to encounter clients that the very bad economical situation here allows them to cut my prices again and again because desperate people that do a less than satisfactory images in their own home after their day job with copied software charge less than 50% than my discounted prices....no way someone that does a 150$ project every now and then will have MAX 5 or even 6, Autocad 2002 etc.....it's a big investment and no one will buy 10000$ of software and hardware to do this images from time to time...in one of our forums here we had the same debat how people like this ruin the jobs but concluded that in the end they are shooting their own legs: Quality,stabillity and good service will let the pro's live ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 Well, at least one colleague shares my concerns regarding the original post! Suppose you are doing a project for a client, and another "architect" (poor, from third world, Argentina like) knocks at his door and tells him :Mr client, pass that work onto me that my architectural fee is gonna be 10% of the one the other (for you)is charging you! Is tht valid/free trade/capitalism or unethical behavior???? I really do not understand why several replies instead critizing these "unloyal competitors",(could it be because they have not felt the effects in their own offices yet?) fall into 3 categories: 1) Justifying everything in the name of an unexisting and 1800's "wild capitalism" 2)Feeling sorry for them:"let the poor people earn a couple bucks..." 3) Desqualifying and insulting me:"Racist/troll/toll/trolo,etc." Shalom [ September 07, 2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: archkre ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 you're an idiot mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 Why this insult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 because you're insulting every member of every country with has a standard of living lower than your own, by saying they're unethical and immoral. I bet you charge less than most illustrators living in NYC. How would you feel if they got a posse together and put you out of business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 I ain't insulting anyone. You are insulting us, people from "other countries" by hinting we have no respect for regulations,or ethic values. When we graduate in our poor Universities we make an oath promising fulfill very important "Codes of ethics" Moreover, I belong to a country "with a lower standard than ours". and I know how things are over there, and ethic principles are valid for them (us)too. Please do not play "Robin Hood" please, I am not your Nottingham sheriff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo scapi Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 ( I don´t know if is a good idea to reply here, because my english doesn´t let me express the way i want, and say all the things y want, but i´ll give it a try) Archkre: Reading yours post makes me wonder, ¿is this guy a so called TROLL, or just a not very inteligent person, then as i read along, i realise that the second definition fits you very well, because you started the post, with what your narrow mind thought was a valid argument, but then man, even when everybody tried to teach you something, you just fall deeper and deeper into your own hole, showing to all of us what kind of racist you are. I´m not even going into the explanation of how this world works (capitalism) because others had done it very well and it was a total waste of time. My only advise to you could be: IMPROVE YOUR OWN WORK, IF YOU WANT TO CHARGE WHAT YOU DESERVE, PEOPLE WILL ALLWAYS PAY FOR A JOB WELL DONE. BTW. i am from Uruguay, that is a country near to Argentina (in case you didn´t know)where the "architects" as you "said" live, and $150 is much more than a regular salary, as you mantioned is enought to "try" to live for a month so obiuslly you can´t compare the price of your work wiht the one made in a "poor country". Now i live and work in Spain, and of course i charge much more than my boss did in Uruguay, and possibly if i go to live to US i would charge even more. In one of your post you said "Shalom" so you must be Jewish; i guess all the yaers your people suffer the racism and violence from others not only didn´t teach you anything, but have turn you into an intolerant racist too. Pablo Scapinachis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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