xgarcia Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Just ignore DannyK. He obviously enjoys bothering people and instigating non-constructive arguements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcorbett Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Danny; Guess what, this affects regular architecture firms just as much as architecture and product visualization firms, and every field, like manufacturing, information technology, and farming. Upset that you're losing gigs to another company whose price is lower? Then lower your prices, or show your clients what it is that you can offer that your competition can't. Are their images of a lesser-quality? Then push that fact that you can offer high-quality work. Or that you can provide more personalized attention to the client, without language, culture, or time barriers. Better yet, why not check out a couple of books on marketing and networking, and work on improving your visibility and reputation, instead of complaining about how it's everyone else's fault. Love, Tom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 16, 2003 Author Share Posted September 16, 2003 This goes for"Octopussy": No se lo que es Uruguay!, tenemos nuestras oficinas en 18 y Egido, almorzamos todos los dias en "La pasiva", y cuando estamos en Florida(USA)somos los unicos que caminamos por Brickel Ave. con el termo bajo el brazo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizzy Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 english please...... if you want to write a personal message, in your own language, you can do so by sending that person a private message... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard McCarthy Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I agree with Jeff, and others, If you can't compete in price, there are a lot of OTHER thing you can still offer to attract client. If you still cannot compete, chances are, you are just not good enough or cut up to do in these line of trade... simple as that. There is no need to be complaining here. Globalisation is inevitable, so, deal with it. There are many antigloblist, either lowly skilled, or simply "incompetent" (as not able to,or simply not "wanting" to compete) people who are lobbying for government protection. Like you say, it *might* be illegal in certain countries (which I doubt) and ofcourse government can pass the laws to protect them, When government "protect" certain industries, those industries will be like the flowers in the green house, they usually just lacks wayyy behind and lacks the drive to innovate. It will only protect the weak for a while, but if they don't grow strong, they will still eventually die out. If you can't compete for price, offer better service! afterall, we are in a SERVICE industry. Originally posted by Jeff Mottle: Danny, This is capitalism and that is how is works. If you can't compete on price, assuming your clients in FL are even pitting you against renderers from other countries, then you should spend time coming up with some marketing to show why going with you is better. (Things like you are local and work the same hours as they do, they are supporting the local economy, you can offer better products?, you can offer them better one on on service etc etc) If you can't compete on any of these then you either just need to deal with the fact that you can not win all bids or improve your work or business offereings so that you are more attractive to the local companies. If none of that works and people locally just don't want to pay that much, then either shift your marketing outside of FL or move to a better city for this type of work. Many rendering firms do not just do work in their own backyards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard McCarthy Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Another thing, yes, ppl CAN live for $150 USD a month in India, but do such a 3rd world country offer the political stabilities of the 1st world countries? Do they have medi-care?? DO you like to live there? and do they complain to you? They can live for $150 because their living standard are NOT as high as western countries. As they aquired more wealth, (we who live in the western countries are the great equaliser) and as more wealth are equalising/distributed around the world, their living standard WILL BECOME higher, and hence the cost of living in those countries WILL become higher, and eventually, they will have to charge higher too. Another thing, I don't think there are such word as "UNEMPLOYMENT PENSION" or RETIREMENT PENSION in such countries. Don't expect to to be slacking off and complaining in here and expect a big fat government paycheck in the mail. In those places, there are NO FALL BACK. Period. People live their lives on the edge. And so should you. If you can't be as eager and as "desperate", to innovate, to seek out work, you can't expect to survive for long in this world. -RM [ September 17, 2003, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: Richard McCarthy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard McCarthy Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 yeh, I think it's valid. They live in 3rd world countries like you say, so they have to put up with a lot of things daily that, we, the people who live in 1st world country that are taken for granted. They may save up and wanting to move to a better place, (1st world country) but what they have and once move to another country will almost become insignicant. On the other hand, if you are a bum, and move to a 3rd world country, you might become a rich man... haha... So, if you can't beat the enemy, JOIN THEM! haha!! Move to India, and I am sure you will find you can price the same way as them since living standard there permits you to do so. -RM Originally posted by archkre: Well, at least one colleague shares my concerns regarding the original post! Suppose you are doing a project for a client, and another "architect" (poor, from third world, Argentina like) knocks at his door and tells him :Mr client, pass that work onto me that my architectural fee is gonna be 10% of the one the other (for you)is charging you! Is tht valid/free trade/capitalism or unethical behavior???? I really do not understand why several replies instead critizing these "unloyal competitors",(could it be because they have not felt the effects in their own offices yet?) fall into 3 categories: 1) Justifying everything in the name of an unexisting and 1800's "wild capitalism" 2)Feeling sorry for them:"let the poor people earn a couple bucks..." 3) Desqualifying and insulting me:"Racist/troll/toll/trolo,etc." Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Hi all, Just some thought: We live in Belgium where coffee is a lot more expensive than say in Indonesia. That doesn't mean I don't buy coffee in Belgium anymore. Think effort, shipping cost, time etc. Initially one might think it's cheaper to buy in Indonesia, eventually it isn't. But of course... coffee don't travel cable! rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 19, 2003 Author Share Posted September 19, 2003 No, Nisus you have a very important conceptual mistake. You can not compare the product of the work of an Architect to a merchandise. Ordinary goods,merchandises,articles are submited (as it was said in earlier posts) to capitalism, to globalization,to law of supply and demand. Collegiate pros(Architects, lawyers,medical drs.,Judges, etc) have something that distinguish them from merchant: Ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Originally posted by archkre: Collegiate pros(Architects, lawyers,medical drs.,Judges, etc) have something that distinguish them from merchant: Ethics. Ethics mentioned in the same sentence as those professions?! I never realized you had such a sense of humor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 No, Nisus... *blah blah blah* You can not... believe me I can... Gotcha Mr.Trol, you won the fools trophy! nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Knourek Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Lawyers, ethics, in the same sentence LMAO. Thanks for the laughs this am, -dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 19, 2003 Author Share Posted September 19, 2003 Belive it or not some Architects/Lawyers/etc. still have sense of Ethics. Do not put everybody in the same bag. Ethics is something to achieve ,you can not buy it! Do you insult me becauseI support Ethics? And your insults do not affect me ,better yet make you look as poor minded lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Question - who is an architect ethically resposible for? Contractually only the client he/she has the contract with. I would want my architect to find the cheapest viz service at the best quality. Architects are not responsible for mainting the integrity of the CG architects union prices. Oh yeah we don't have a union. Archre why is everyone else wrong but you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archkre Posted September 19, 2003 Author Share Posted September 19, 2003 Sawyer, maybe you are right,but I do not even remember what the first and original post was.And I am very tired...Let's leave this issue about "ethics" to some ancient Greek philosophers and pass onto a next chapter. Maybe about more earthling subjects. Shabat Shalom for everybody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Cheers Danny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard McCarthy Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 There is another point I like to make, and it's from my past experience as web designer. Web design is a lot like architecture, it is combination of "Art" and "technical know-how". Web Design used to be quite a high profit margin business, with good skill required for coding and scripting (that was Wayyyy before Adobe Pagemill even came into existance, let along Dreamweaver), then some product (as mention above) comes to the market and a lot of people start getting into this business, may it be a high school student, or professional coders (who lacks aesthetic training), and then Dotcom boom was on, everyone is in the Web design business. Before long, price war ensue, since, any high school student can knock out a nice looking website from the templates and script, downloaded from the web, and just modify them, it wasn't long before this market driven all the way to the roadside. Granted you can still make a living as web designer, but it's no longer the same as it was. There is something that I see similarly in the CG Rendering business as I see it in web design, that the ease of use of tools, and some freeware tools program that may drive the general publics jumping into this business (if they had known how easy it is, thus creating another dotcom) I know I kinda contradict myself from previous post, I hadn't realise this until now, but my point from previous post still holds valid. It's the SERVICE that seperates a PRO from AMATEURE, and the relentless drive for innovation. -RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I wonder why all you guys are afraid for students or amateurs taking over... If you are really good, you won't doubt this a single second... nisus ow... and don't turn things around: not doubting won't make you good either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard McCarthy Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Well, to counter your (nisus) argument from web design's perspective, I can say, students and amateurs drives down the price. You can be VERY VERY good and charge your normal price of $20,000 for developing the site (that used to be the minimum price any top design firm charge, anything lower they won't even look) Now, the bottom line is none-existant. You won't expect to survive if you still charge at that price. And the truth is.. a lot of design firm perished because of that. I have no problem with student either, just that once you are NOT a student anymore, and you start wanting to charge the normal price, people start bypassing you and look for student (since there are unlimited supply of them).... the problem with floods of people going into certain area of industry. Another point, aesthetic is such a subjective thing, and the easier the tools get, the easier it is for any artistic 'awared" person to do this. There are A LOT of talented student who are fresh with newest ideas that are willing to work for rock bottom prices for web design. And it has become that a lot of people are MORE willing to give the contract to student because they have fresher ideas than anyone who have go through the grind and become "stale".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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