Getting started with Modeling the Cathedral

[kalmarjan]

Hello again everyone.

 

I have tried to model my imaginary cathedral based off a huge number of images I have found. I am stuck at the start, with the walls, so here is the question:

 

I have a really basic floorplan image which states where the walls are, the pillars, doors and that is about it. Along with that, I have a discription of what the cathedral looks like.

 

From there, I traced out the floor plan with planes, then extruded the polygons up by group in sections for where the windows/doors would go.

 

Specifically, the cathedral is 300 feet by 200 feet, and I imagine that it is 50 feet high. I decided that I would like to have the windows in between where the pillars to the cathedral are, three levels. The front door is to be recessed in, the doors themselves would be about 10 feet wide each, so that would be 20 feet.

 

Now, the problem that I am having is that when I cut in the spaces for the windows, I am trying to eliminate extra geometry to keep the walls clean for when I put in the details later on. When I go to remove the edges or verts, the walls collapse. I think this is because I started off by drawing to outline of the walls with a plane.

 

So, right from the start, the question would be what do you all use for modeling walls? Do you start off with a box object for each wall, then use the connect tool to cut in your walls?

 

I am sorry if this seems noobish, but I am really just starting to get into max. I have read all the help files, and I have been playing around with trial and error, but maybe some help from the pros will get me on the right track.

 

Sandeman

[kalmarjan]

Bon.

 

Just for laughs, I am attaching the image that I am working from. The rest will have to come from my imagination. Hey, this is good for experience, no?

 

Sandeman

[Ernest Burden III]

to model my imaginary cathedral...

 

I have a really basic floorplan...

 

the cathedral is 300 feet by 200 feet, and I imagine that it is 50 feet high.

 

Perhaps I'm over-simplifying this, but cathedrals are about height. The idea is to draw the spirit upwards--towards heaven. So 300'x200'x50' sounds more like a WalMart that a physical manifestation of the joy of faith. The idea is to build a massive structure that feels light, airy and open in defiance of its size. So you find the most efficient forms to carry weight to the ground and open up the walls to bring in light. The flying buttresses of gothic architecture were a means of channeling the forces of weight away from the center of the building, thus allowing the removal of the center line of columns.

 

Cathedrals are meant to awe. They have always been the buildings that had the best and most cutting-edge design, engineering and craftsmanship (and some collapsed anyway). Try to apply some ideas that meet that historical lineage.

[kalmarjan]

Okay, I see what you mean.

 

Perhaps making the structure reach 90 to 100 feet in the air would be the way to go. This cathedral was an important monument in the lost city (from the backstory) so I would think that it would be the landmark of the lost city.

 

Do you know if there is a site with some decent blueprints of gothic cathedrals to gain some inspiration from?

 

A search on google yeilded some nuggets of info, but perhaps there is somewhere where I do not know to look?

 

The best I came up with is this site:

http://www.spafi.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=106&Itemid=34

 

This pretty much represents to me sort of what the cathedral would look like. I extrapolate the columns to really mean sub rooms, and not necessarily round columns. (I am not sure if that makes sense. I am speaking about they sort of look like the walls with the holes cut into them.)

 

Unfortunately, I have no architectural background. I will reasearch further so that I know what I am getting into.

 

Sandeman

[batteryoperatedlettuce]

There's some basic things you need to know about column orders and proportions if you want to add a touch of realism. If you deviate from the traditional styles, which is perfectly acceptable nowadays, you should be aware that you're doing so.

 

There's a great primer here, which provides plans in html and pdf format and can walk you through the basics.

 

This is one of my favorite cathedrials - click

[kalmarjan]

Wow. Thank you so much for that. It looks like I have a little bit of reading to do, and great reading at that.

 

You do not know how much you have helped me.

 

Sandeman

[Ernest Burden III]

This is one of my favorite cathedrials - click

 

A mere babe. I go 'old-school' in most things:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres_Cathedral

 

And this is what I call 'my cathedral':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Saint_John_the_Divine%2C_New_York

 

I did a number or renderings of this place early in my career, in fact a cut-away section was my first major commission once I started my own business (at 20). A poster of it sat at the entrance of the cathedral for over a decade (it may be there still, though it wasn't the last time I was there) meaning that its the most seen rendering I have ever done. During the time it was on display, several million visitors walked through the door. At one point I did a photographic survey of the building and its grounds for a 2200 image, four huge screens slide show in the cathedral to celebrate the centennial of the planning of the cathedral. That remains my most enjoyable assignment ever.

 

Can you tell that I like cathedrals?

[kalmarjan]

I sort of get that feeling.

 

Thank you so much for the links. The elevation models give me something to go on with what I was thinking. It is very interesting to read up on the architecture of that period.

 

While my model will be for a fantasy setting, to sell the illusion, it is best to model it off of the real world to sell the illusion.

 

I would like to give a heartfelt thanks for the link, and I hope to have at least something to show for it in the future.

 

I am soooooooo entirely stoked about this. Way more stoked than modeling a f14, or an aircraft carrier.

 

Now, for the question of the day:

 

Looking at the object, I am seeing the base parts that I want to start off with. How do you pros go about modeling the base walls? Is this Box modeling? Is it NURBS? Splines?

 

I hope I do not sound like TOO much of a NOOB, but I just would like to see which direction to go in before I jump off the pier. LOL

 

Sandeman

[vizwhiz]

google search results: 1,330,000

 

'cathedral plans'

 

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GWYF,GWYF:2006-50,GWYF:en&q=cathedral+plans

 

'cathedral elevation' only 774,000

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GWYF%2CGWYF%3A2006-50%2CGWYF%3Aen&q=cathedral+elevation

 

This might be useful, a cross-section art printwork at All Posters

but it is a good reference fo vizual-eyesing The interior connections

 

http://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=1001091&imgloc=10-1072-REBV000Z.jpg&imgwidth=924&imgheight=649

 

http://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=2167535&imgloc=15-1508-WI5BD00Z.jpg&imgwidth=894&imgheight=671

 

i hope This helps

 

Thanks

 

randy

[batteryoperatedlettuce]

heh, not a bad bunch of blocks you mentioned there. Actually I like the cathedral I mentioned up above because I met a very nice girl there.

[batteryoperatedlettuce]

Looking at the object, I am seeing the base parts that I want to start off with. How do you pros go about modeling the base walls? Is this Box modeling? Is it NURBS? Splines?

Sandeman

 

This is a really open ended question, to which I hate having to give vague answers, but the answer really is that there are lots and lots of ways to do this.

 

I model in 3d max and use different methods depending on whether I am working from elevations or plans. I can safely say that you won't have much fun modeling a wall with NURBS, that's not really what nurbs are for.

 

If you are just starting out, it might be best to have a good clear plan worked out and trace it out with splines, then extrude the solid walls up. For walls with complex holes in them or cavities, you will probably end up having to draw elevations. I always do this part in CAD.

 

If you search the forums here on how to model a wall, you will find lots of different suggestions. For me I don't mind spending a little extra time on modeling, provided that the model is clean, with all vertexes welded together where they should be and no overlapping faces. I think this would probably be a good strategy for you too.

[kalmarjan]

I found the series of modeling a house by Ted Boardman. This is exactly what I was looking for.

 

 

Thank you for the help guys and gals!

 

Sandeman