Ernest Burden III Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 It seems I've mis-attributed the speed comment for the Fry toon engine. The actual post on the Fry forum was: PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:05 pm Ernest Burden wrote: Did anyone mention the rendering times for this new engine? I would assume its fast, but its worth asking. thxraph wrote: ultra fast, ie, for the 3 animations, the options are different, the faster took less than a min per frame, the slower was like 80sec per frame...fast Raph Beta Testing Force It wasn't Dave, but Dave's always helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 It's funny; there is a similar thread on the Maxwell forum right now discussing the benefits of having a toon engine. Some like the idea some don't and there are two reasons given, one group doesn’t see the need for a photorealistic render engine to be able to produce no photorealistic results. The other group doesn’t want NL to take any resources away from working on core features to produce another feature that was never on the original features list. I'm in the middle I'd like to see Maxwell have this feature eventually but not until everything else works. There has also been mention as to how quickly Fry is able to implement new features and updates. Does anyone know how big the team working on the Fry engine is and why there seems to be such a discrepancy in speed between NL and Feversoft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHE Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Some of you might find this interesting: http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=17703 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 ....... Does anyone know how big the team working on the Fry engine is and why there seems to be such a discrepancy in speed between NL and Feversoft? ......competence? Sorry, it had to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 ......competence? Sorry, it had to be said. I've seen enough of NL to know that some of what you said is true but I have to believe there is something else going on over there. Take the last update as an example, they had a year to improve upon and test before releasing 1.5 and when they did it was so full of bugs it was unusable. I can see that incompetence would have caused some of this but not all, so is NL's management so broken that it's simply imposable for them to produce a quality product? This is a serious question and it goes to the heart of whether or not Maxwell will even be able to compete with Fry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I've seen enough of NL to know that some of what you said is true but I have to believe there is something else going on over there. Take the last update as an example, they had a year to improve upon and test before releasing 1.5 and when they did it was so full of bugs it was unusable. I can see that incompetence would have caused some of this but not all, so is NL's management so broken that it's simply imposable for them to produce a quality product? This is a serious question and it goes to the heart of whether or not Maxwell will even be able to compete with Fry. ......like I said, competence - or lack thereof - whether it be at the PR level, management level or even the technical/development level. It's just that simple. I mean, how else can any self-respecting firm claim to have an internal Beta team and yet still produce a software release after over a year in development, that produces bugs or just plain crashes within the first couple of renders for most people? and it`s not even like there was a deadline this time around like during the RC fiasco. Like I said, the difference between the 2 firms is basically, competence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 is NL's management so broken that it's simply imposable for them to produce a quality product? This is a serious question and it goes to the heart of whether or not Maxwell will even be able to compete with Fry. Maxwell already competes quite well with Fry. Fry isn't even a 1.0 product yet. But MWR is doing fine, and may not care so much about the arch-vis market. We do, but maybe they don't. In other areas the product performs well and seems to be selling well. That's competing. I'm not an insider to either company, so I can't say much about who's management is better, but as a customer to both, I prefer the style of FeverSoft. In terms of teams, there are obviously many people working on aspects of both products, but it appears the coding genius is Oscar for Maxwell and Chema for Fry. In announcing the upcoming toon engine, Chema commented that the code has an architecture that easily allows new modules to be plugged in. Perhaps the Maxwell product was written differently, and changes are hard to implement. You would think a tightly written core would be good for speed, so maybe that's what they did and why. Just speculation on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 It's funny; there is a similar thread on the Maxwell forum right now discussing the benefits of having a toon engine. Some like the idea some don't and there are two reasons given, one group doesn’t see the need for a photorealistic render engine to be able to produce no photorealistic results. The other group doesn’t want NL to take any resources away from working on core features to produce another feature that was never on the original features list. You left out the group that thinks that people who would want NPR tools either don't know what they're doing with Maxwell, or don't use it at all. This whole thing reminds me of that Rice Krispie Treats commercial where the mom "slaves away" in the kitchen making them, which takes 1 pan and 5 minutes. She spritzes her face with flour before presenting them to her family to show how much hard work it was. That is Multi-light and Simulens in a nutshell. If it wasn't easy, they were doing something very wrong. I'm not saying that the fryrender development team doesn't work hard - they are relentless and keep insane work schedules. They are also extremely gifted and have a keen development path. So this idea that something that seems to come so quickly and easily can't be worth much, is bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 You left out the group that thinks that people who would want NPR tools either don't know what they're doing with Maxwell, or don't use it at all. This whole thing reminds me of that Rice Krispie Treats commercial where the mom "slaves away" in the kitchen making them, which takes 1 pan and 5 minutes. She spritzes her face with flour before presenting them to her family to show how much hard work it was. That is Multi-light and Simulens in a nutshell. If it wasn't easy, they were doing something very wrong. LOL I love your since of humor Fran! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adehus Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Andrew--were you being serious? If you look at my work you'll see the value of combining realistc renders with toon effects. No, not serious at all. Just a bit of satire related to a previous thread. In all honesty, I find both features to be essential (i use FormZ's sketch module constantly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbad Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Does anyone know how big the team working on the Fry engine is and why there seems to be such a discrepancy in speed between NL and Feversoft? The only explanation I can imagine is that NL's core business is something else, like Real Flow, and they just pull people off of that to work on Maxwell once in a while. That would explain why right around release time they are able to put out several quick patches for a few days, then it all goes quiet again, even when it comes to fixing important but simple problems- because they had to go back to working on something else. And they clearly have little or no organized in-house testing program. Volunteer beta testers are meant to be a backup, not the sole means of finding bugs. Feversoft appears to be just a small handful of people. If you look at Chema's posts in the forum, he spends all his waking hours at work. And he doesn't sleep much. He's driven, obviously highly skilled, and 100% of his attention is focused on one product. As soon as they support my software, I'm game for trying it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Pende Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Its out! http://www.fryrender.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gattomanzo Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 checked the demo and some plugins... IMO incredibly well done, first public release show "others" how a job must be done. documentation is clear and exaustive and above all other nice features, the product was TESTED before the release, with all features working. sure, there are still bugs here and there, but this beta works surely better than ... err what was i talking about? anyway good job Feversoft!!! thumbs up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giovanni Scocchera Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 checked the demo and some plugins... Can you tell us how are the plug-ins? What about XSI? And in relation to maxwell's one? Ciao, Gio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gattomanzo Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Can you tell us how are the plug-ins? What about XSI? And in relation to maxwell's one? Ciao, Gio well in relation to maxwell one i must say this is COMPLETE and WORKING. you have the functions placed where you think they should be, and are grouped all under a custom shelf. plugin interface is easy and its well designed. usable since first version, so it was TESTED Maxwell one simply ISNT :D other FRY plugins have the same standards, using fry you can meet obvious bugs that can be into a beta release, BUT all advertised features are there, and are working! Chema (feversoft boss) is a guy that must live 48 hours a day he responds to ALL posts by himself and in a polite and kind way, and what surprises for the most (truly speaking this should be a standard), he polls among forum user which plugin he should develop next... and HE DOES! as say before...all thumbs up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visual Impact Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 well in relation to maxwell one i must say this is COMPLETE and WORKING. you have the functions placed where you think they should be, and are grouped all under a custom shelf. plugin interface is easy and its well designed. usable since first version, so it was TESTED Maxwell one simply ISNT :D other FRY plugins have the same standards, using fry you can meet obvious bugs that can be into a beta release, BUT all advertised features are there, and are working! Chema (feversoft boss) is a guy that must live 48 hours a day he responds to ALL posts by himself and in a polite and kind way, and what surprises for the most (truly speaking this should be a standard), he polls among forum user which plugin he should develop next... and HE DOES! as say before...all thumbs up agree 100% :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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