deanomagino Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 i have been trying to light this indoor cafe scene using only sun and phys cam... but as you can see im struggling to get the light balanced throughout the room. the windows seems as if there is and explosion outside and the back is way too dark. any ideas???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manta Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Are you using any color mapping ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 well you have a lot of issues, but i would take a step back and eliminate some variables. hide the glass, turn off anti-aliasing, turn off glossy effects...this will allow you to see results without these effects. with this you can better understand what's causing some problems. start with reinhard color mapping with a burn value of 0.5 (this is a 50/50 mix of exponential and linear) good settings to start with: ir map with a medium preset, hsph subdivs=20 light cache with 250 subdivs adapt qmc min/max=2/5 leave everything else at default values...then work on putting the glass, AA, and glossies back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 i have done what was suggested any further pointers? im not quite filling the room with light which is annoying i must have some other settings wrong?? oh the the color mapping i used was exponential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 looks like you have no real background objects, just a white color swatch. in any case, i would have something shown outside, even if only an image of something. now you need to turn the glass back on, add a vray light plane just inside the window and door frames, play with the color and intensity multiplier once you have the lighting correct, then turn glossies back on and improve the image sampling. it doesnt look like you used adapt qmc with 2/5 min and max...it looks like you still have really low settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 oops....i just noticed the title...i didnt realize you were using the vray physical camera. my suggestion to you now is, dont use it until you get a proper setup with the standard. if you use a standard camera, you will have a much easier time with setup...once you setup your lighting correctly you can quite easily switch to the vray camera if you know the basics of photography. the 3 big settings to get right are fstop, film speed, shutter speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 The thing with a physical camera is that it cannot capture the whole range of light that your eyes see. The vray sun light is something like 380 times brighter than a light with the value of 1. So if you are used to working with interior shadows well exposed and exteriors not washed out you need to compensate when using a physical camera. Most photographers use fill lights of some sort to bring the shadows up. That is why your camera has a flash. Its a very different work flow and if you are not familiar with it I would not suggest using the vray camera to learn it. Drop your sun settings down try a multiplier of .01 and use the max camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 ok, right i have tried a few things but im still getting the same results. i used the standard cam which gave me the same results as the phys cam after adjusting the f number iso etc... im just not able to fill the room with light. could it be the shape of the room??? more lights needed? other have lite rooms this size using only vray sun??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoa Dinh Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 ok, right i have tried a few things but im still getting the same results. i used the standard cam which gave me the same results as the phys cam after adjusting the f number iso etc... im just not able to fill the room with light. could it be the shape of the room??? more lights needed? other have lite rooms this size using only vray sun??? have you ever try increase dark and bright mutil? I think maybe you should move vraysun higher? make some screenshots and everybody can know what r you doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 have you ever try increase dark and bright mutil? I think maybe you should move vraysun higher? make some screenshots and everybody can know what r you doing. right i have increased the primary bounce to 3 and give the the room a lighter shade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 ok, right i have tried a few things but im still getting the same results. i used the standard cam which gave me the same results as the phys cam after adjusting the f number iso etc... im just not able to fill the room with light. could it be the shape of the room??? more lights needed? other have lite rooms this size using only vray sun??? you may have missed one of the things i said...you really, really need to place a vray light plane just inside the room for each window and door opening (though you can sometimes get away with 1 light for multiple openings). without it you will need really high quality settings and lots of adjustments to color mapping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exellite Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 have u modelled the whole room including the wall behind the camera?, because that would go someway to bouncing some of that light back into the room. Personally I've tried to light my scenes using only the sun, sometimes it works but most of the time I find myself doing as Brian suggested and using vray lights placed just inside windows/doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTaylor Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 you may have missed one of the things i said...you really, really need to place a vray light plane just inside the room for each window and door opening (though you can sometimes get away with 1 light for multiple openings). without it you will need really high quality settings and lots of adjustments to color mapping Brain, i'm encountering this exact issue whilst trying to get an internal image to render using only VRay Sun, Sky and Cam. Using HSph subdivs and Interp samples set at 100 still produces a mottled effect on areas of large unbroken surfaces, i.e ceilings and walls??? As you can see from the attached image the space is very open to incoming light. I have turned off the glass thinking that once the sunlight has passed thro it it will be treated as refactive samples etc. also tried increasing refraction samples and have increased the Sun's sub divisions to 15,000 The 1st image is rendered with settings that would be deemed good for the earlier builds of vray that don't use sun and cam (probably 50/40 for HSph/Interp) the second has been render at 100/100 HSph/Interp originally at 3000*2250 - i've reduced it here for file size can you shed any light onto why its so difficult to remove this mottled effect when only using the sun / sky... what makes it so different to using vray plane lights inside the windows, in terms of producing the mottled appearance **guess i should also mention that this is using Lele's 0.255 method** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 thanks every one for your help... had a few spare moments at work to try a few things out... getting there slowly but surely not finished by any means but better than before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 can you shed any light onto why its so difficult to remove this mottled effect when only using the sun / sky... what makes it so different to using vray plane lights inside the windows, in terms of producing the mottled appearance **guess i should also mention that this is using Lele's 0.255 method** James, Any light positioned in place of the sun, especially the vray plane, will cause this affect. It's just because of the number of times light has to bounce around to reach all the surfaces of an interior when it has to first start outside. Since a direct light and the vray sun both cast parallel rays, and since they only get a little scattered in various directions each time they bounce, it takes a lot of bounces to 'paint' all of the surfaces with light. At the end, when the algoriths are cut short by all the quality settings, it has to use interpolation to blend the painted with non painted surfaces together to get a smooth appearance. Of course you can use QMC but it'll take longer and the noise you see will be finer rather than splotchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 thanks every one for your help... had a few spare moments at work to try a few things out... getting there slowly but surely not finished by any means but better than before... If you're using exponential colour mapping, try to increase the gamma value. Thats what I normally do and turn of the vignetting if you're using vray physical camera. so it won't darken the edges. Hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 If you're using exponential colour mapping, try to increase the gamma value. Thats what I normally do and turn of the vignetting if you're using vray physical camera. so it won't darken the edges. Hope it helps tried your technique.. defo get more of a balanced light through the room the first image test is using reinhard burn 0.5 gamma 1 but i didnt have the glass in the windows.. i put the glass back in and tried the same set up and ended up were i started.. tried your technique which is the second image (exposure) with the windows in and i get the balance of light but the room seems smoky... i like test lighting but its a little burnt were the light enters, and i like exposure due to its balance of light... need to get somewhere in between Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 also the sun doesnt seem to penetrate the glass..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 tried your technique.. defo get more of a balanced light through the room the first image test is using reinhard burn 0.5 gamma 1 but i didnt have the glass in the windows.. i put the glass back in and tried the same set up and ended up were i started.. tried your technique which is the second image (exposure) with the windows in and i get the balance of light but the room seems smoky... i like test lighting but its a little burnt were the light enters, and i like exposure due to its balance of light... need to get somewhere in between Did you tick the affect shadows in your glass materials? that can bring the sunlight thru. Or another way is select all the glass then right click, properties, untick the receive shadows and cast shadows. I believe that way you can achieve both. (crossed finger) good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 hey guys thanks again for your help.. getting there slowly... managed to spread the light more through the room using exposure color mapping increasing the gamma to 2 worked well... what i am trying to do is add some ies lights.. get some artificial lighting in the room also... but the ies dont seem to appear at all... see what you think anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 oh yeah.. the door seems to react strangely to the light and also has some color from the chair on it too... any ideas why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exellite Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 how reflective is it? its looking so much better now btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanomagino Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Thanks. there is no reflection what so ever.. i thinks its to do with the bright and dark multiplier under the exponential color mapping... but im not sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTaylor Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Dean, the image is improving nicely! what render settings are you using for these sample shots? As you'll have seen from my earlier post i've also been playing with the Vray Sun, Sky & Camera for an interior and as Brain stated i'm finding i'm having to use very high settings... I've actually reduced the adaptive amount of rQMC sampler which has helped alot, although at the expense of render times. However, i still don't think my areas of flat colour mainly the ceiling are coming out as smooth as you have achieved??? I'll post my settings and image samples when i'm back in the office tomorrow, it'd be good to compare. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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