Outside of Viz/Max...

[RyanSpaulding]

Hey guys,

 

Been experimenting with different software lately to migrate to (we're slow right now...building season) and was REALLY interested in Modo as a rendering app. Looked easy, HQ renders, fast ect. Well, things are not always as they seem. I'm still working on an acceptable workflow, but Modo takes a lot of cleanup and steps to get from a good CAD model to a Modo scene.

 

So, I'm not really interested in which is the best renderer, but more, what software are you using that plays well with CAD? I know Max/Viz have the ultimate in the DWGLink, but what else has a pretty decent workflow...maybe even having the ability to update the model if you change it in CAD.

 

We've been using Vue 5 Infinite for a long time...and while it advertises this ability, it will change the positioning of the object if the dimensions change.

 

At this point, we need something workflow friendly.

[Tommy L]

Do you mean to bring in the model from Aotocad, or to use reference drawings from Autocad?

If you are looking at a new workflow, I would suggest that you look at doing all the modelling in the new software, rather than using Autocad.

[Vince Paske]

Tell your bosses to step up and lay down the cash for Max/VRay.

[RyanSpaulding]

Tell your bosses to step up and lay down the cash for Max/VRay.

 

Haven't we discussed this Vince?

 

Anyways, I was speaking on using models from AutoCAD.

[Tommy L]

Autocad is expensive software that is not the best for modelling. You should look for a 3d solution that enables you to model natively. Unless you are receiving the completed autocad files from a 3rd party.

[Vince Paske]

Haven't we discussed this Vince?

 

Anyways, I was speaking on using models from AutoCAD.

 

Indeed we have Ryan

Perhaps the guys at Chaos will announce when the standalone version of VRay will be available at this years DMVC. I haven't kept up with the latest rumors though.

[CHE]

Ryan,

 

Like Tom said, you need to be willing to stop modeling in AutoCAD and learn to do it in the new application. Otherwise, you are letting Autodesk limit your options.

 

Ernesto

[RyanSpaulding]

Ryan,

 

Like Tom said, you need to be willing to stop modeling in AutoCAD and learn to do it in the new application. Otherwise, you are letting Autodesk limit your options.

 

Ernesto

 

Yeah, I figured. I've downloaded some Modo modeling tuts to do this weekend...we'll see how it goes. Many, including you, seem to love this app for modeling and such. Only thing I'm worried about with Modo right now is hireability. If I get good at Modo, then lose my job, there isn't a plethora of Modo jobs out there...so i kinda wanted to stay on top of CAD stuff.

 

No matter, if I were to lose my job, I'd likely have to start my own biz doing viz and other graphic work. Not much here in Madison.

[richmondlu]

There is always the MAYA.

 

[CHE]

Yeah, I figured. I've downloaded some Modo modeling tuts to do this weekend...we'll see how it goes. Many, including you, seem to love this app for modeling and such. Only thing I'm worried about with Modo right now is hireability. If I get good at Modo, then lose my job, there isn't a plethora of Modo jobs out there...so i kinda wanted to stay on top of CAD stuff.

 

No matter, if I were to lose my job, I'd likely have to start my own biz doing viz and other graphic work. Not much here in Madison.

 

I hear you. I own a license of both, Modo and 3dsmax and I am always jumping from one app to the other one at work. To me there is not a "do it all" application although Modo is getting close to be "the" one IMHO. 3dsmax has become to expensive for me to keep updating and its technology has not been greatly updated in the last 5 to 6 years. On the other hand, Modo is very affordable and it is a very innovative and fun to use piece of software.

 

In any case, software is just the tool. You need to find the one you feel more comfortable with. My two cents.

 

E

[Vince Paske]

Ryan, try the free version of SketchUp and experiment with modeling in that. Many, many architectural firms use it so it wouldn't be a major sacrifice to your goal of being "hire-able". Then, when VRay for SketchUp comes along, you'll be set.

Modo seems cool, but isn't widespread enough to make it your "de-facto" modeling tool.

[CHE]

I also use Sketch Up often. It is a very good program for massing out design concepts. The problem with Sketch up is that even if you are being very careful when modeling (separating things into groups and whatnot) at some point you will end up with a messy mesh (extra faces, lines and alike). Not to mention its very clumsy viewport navigation. And then, if you attempt to bring a SU model into another application for further development you end up with a triangulated mesh nightmare forcing you to do a lot of cleaning to make it usable. It is almost as bad as with ADT models. Like I said, SU is a great design tool but I try to stay away from it for final presentations IMHO.

 

In any case, here are some examples of the type of work I do with Sketch Up and the Maxwell plugin.

[Tommy L]

The majority of programs run on similar principles, so just use the best tool for the job. Dont worry about 'hirability' when making the desicion, because your skills will translate into another program very quickly.

[CHE]

The majority of programs run on similar principles, so just use the best tool for the job. Dont worry about 'hirability' when making the desicion, because your skills will translate into another program very quickly.

 

Exactly.

[Richard Rush]

I've been using formZ (http://www.formz.com) for eleven years. Since I'm a freelancer I don't have someone else telling me what to use.

 

Rightly or wrongly I've always been fixated on modeling and rendering within the same software. The latest release of formZ (version 6.5) includes substantial improvements in rendering, which greatly eases my frustrations with the program lagging far behind in the rendering area for several years.

 

There is also a highly integrated Maxwell plug-in which seems to work well for many users, while others find it problematic. I have not tried it (yet). There is currently a special offer of Maxwell for $450 to users of formZ RenderZone Plus (that's version 6.5 which includes the rendering component).

 

FormZ imports/exports a number of 2D/3D file formats, including AutoCad. Virtually all my projects involve importing 2D AutoCad files, and occasionally 3D. SketchUp files are another story - fortunately I only had to do this once and ended up rebuilding the model using the SketchUp model as a kind of 3D template.

 

Richard

[Tommy L]

I've been using formZ (http://www.formz.com) for eleven years. Since I'm a freelancer I don't have someone else telling me what to use.

 

Rightly or wrongly I've always been fixated on modeling and rendering within the same software. The latest release of formZ (version 6.5) includes substantial improvements in rendering, which greatly eases my frustrations with the program lagging far behind in the rendering area for several years.

 

Richard

 

Hello Richard, why did you stick with a program that you were unhappy with for 'several years'? just curious.

[CHE]

One example. This morning I was asked to render a couple of views of an interior space for a design meeting by noon. I knew Sketch Up would be the best tool for this task. I finished the model in 2 hours and did a couple of 7 min renderings with the Maxwell plugin. So do not limit yourself to one application. If you can afford it then shop around for the best tools you can incorporate into your work flow.

[William Alexander]

Yeah, I figured. I've downloaded some Modo modeling tuts to do this weekend...we'll see how it goes. Many, including you, seem to love this app for modeling and such. Only thing I'm worried about with Modo right now is hireability. If I get good at Modo, then lose my job, there isn't a plethora of Modo jobs out there...so i kinda wanted to stay on top of CAD stuff.

 

No matter, if I were to lose my job, I'd likely have to start my own biz doing viz and other graphic work. Not much here in Madison.

 

Using Modo right now is about speed to model and UV texture...if the app your exporting to can take the file in The studio I was at here in Dallas...that's all I used to model. Then exported out to C4D as the renderin app. Another CG guy used Max exclusively....you see there aren't many C4D artists in general and even fewer set up for what the "Studio" called ArchViz. The thing with Modo, imho, is that's it's a tool 'you' bring with you if the studio/firm will allow you to work with it to speed things up. You have to keep up with your main app....even though Modo is quite the seductive mistress

 

LOL There ain't a whole hell of anything in central-southeast Wisconsin CG wise, imho, well except for taverns & bars if you include that in the sense of a virtual reality...LOL

 

WDA

[Aaron2004]

I've heard a lot of good things about blender...if you can get over the learning curve. Plus it's open source.

[Richard Rush]

Hello Richard, why did you stick with a program that you were unhappy with for 'several years'? just curious.

 

Good question, Tom. The answer involves a combination of things.

 

One is a determination to model and render within one software package. My projects generally involve multiple revisions of multiple views and I think exporting/importing for the rendering part would be cumbersome, even though I haven't actually tried it. My work with most clients is as part of the design development process; they don't just hire me to produce images of a final design. I've continually tried to stay familiar with other products on the market and none of them seem to be very strong in all areas.

 

I actually have been quite happy with formZ overall. The frustration with rendering capability built gradually as other products "raised the bar" for my expectations. I may be guilty of having lots of patience, as I kept thinking that improvements were "just around the corner." But we are now around that corner and I believe that formZ is a contender for the best all-in-one software out there. And I really respect the company - customers are treated fairly, they are responsive to users, and their technical support is excellent (and how many companies can you call anymore where the phone is answered by a live person, and you're quickly connected to the person you need about 95% of the time).

 

I'm reluctant to jump into the money pit of endlessly chasing the latest and greatest of almost anything. And my time also would become part of the money pit. Maybe it's quick and easy for everyone else, but I find it time consuming, frustrating, and difficult to learn new software. There are many areas of formZ that I'm still not proficient with. I don't know how people can become proficient in depth with so many different programs.

 

I hope to remain completely free of the Autodesk money pit. If I had perceived Max as being great for architectural modeling, rendering, and other aspects of working with a large project, I might have moved to it. But I generally don't hear people talk about it being great for modeling, and then everyone needs to buy Vray to plug into it. It almost seems as though its best feature is being a receptacle for plug-ins. I do hear though that Mental Ray has improved a lot with the latest release.

 

So, rational or not, those are my reasons.

 

Richard

[Tommy L]

Good question, Tom. The answer involves a combination of things.

 

One is a determination to model and render within one software package. My projects generally involve multiple revisions of multiple views and I think exporting/importing for the rendering part would be cumbersome, even though I haven't actually tried it. My work with most clients is as part of the design development process; they don't just hire me to produce images of a final design. I've continually tried to stay familiar with other products on the market and none of them seem to be very strong in all areas.

 

I actually have been quite happy with formZ overall. The frustration with rendering capability built gradually as other products "raised the bar" for my expectations. I may be guilty of having lots of patience, as I kept thinking that improvements were "just around the corner." But we are now around that corner and I believe that formZ is a contender for the best all-in-one software out there. And I really respect the company - customers are treated fairly, they are responsive to users, and their technical support is excellent (and how many companies can you call anymore where the phone is answered by a live person, and you're quickly connected to the person you need about 95% of the time).

 

I'm reluctant to jump into the money pit of endlessly chasing the latest and greatest of almost anything. And my time also would become part of the money pit. Maybe it's quick and easy for everyone else, but I find it time consuming, frustrating, and difficult to learn new software. There are many areas of formZ that I'm still not proficient with. I don't know how people can become proficient in depth with so many different programs.

 

I hope to remain completely free of the Autodesk money pit. If I had perceived Max as being great for architectural modeling, rendering, and other aspects of working with a large project, I might have moved to it. But I generally don't hear people talk about it being great for modeling, and then everyone needs to buy Vray to plug into it. It almost seems as though its best feature is being a receptacle for plug-ins. I do hear though that Mental Ray has improved a lot with the latest release.

 

So, rational or not, those are my reasons.

 

Richard

 

Fair enough. I think another reason is you are a freelancer. Most of the people on the forum are not. They go to their boss (who knows little of 3d) and say "Max is reliable industry standard..." and it gets bought. But damn its expensive! If i was freelance, I would change modeller. Id probably go Modo and Fry, with vray for animations.

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer. And I am in agreement with the customer service side 100%!!!!!

[Richard Rush]

Fair enough. I think another reason is you are a freelancer. Most of the people on the forum are not. They go to their boss (who knows little of 3d) and say "Max is reliable industry standard..." and it gets bought. But damn its expensive! If i was freelance, I would change modeller. Id probably go Modo and Fry, with vray for animations.

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer. And I am in agreement with the customer service side 100%!!!!!

 

Tom, another "reason" that I forgot to mention was simply the fact that I've been using formZ exclusively for eleven years. Somehow that deepens my reluctance to jump to another product without a high level of certainty that I wouldn't be giving up things I've taken for granted for so many years. My entire archive of projects are all in formZ format, and sometimes a project resurfaces several years after my initial work (right now I'm doing major revisions to a project that I originally did three years ago). So, for me, just being invested in it for so long has become a significant part of the issue.

 

One might ask, if I were just starting out now, would I likely choose formZ as an all-in-one solution? That's really difficult to answer because I would be a completely different person with different influences over the years. But I would suggest that anyone now scanning the marketplace take a good look at formZ, especially now with the release of version 6.5 including RenderZone Plus.

 

Richard

[Tommy L]

I agree, my situation is changing soon and Ive been looking at alternatives. I bought the beta of Fry and it made me realise that rendering may well take a new direction for me in the near future.

I think i will take a look at form z. With the customer care youve mentioned, it looks attractive.