Modelling a site and pavement etc. in Viz4.

[mzagorski]

Hey all...

 

Im doing a university project just now and plan to make a model of the site. This isn't a flat site and I need to show a few different levels in height... and also have to show pavements... What modelling technique do you guys use for this?

 

I have it all drawn in AutoCAD as a siteplan and site sections.

 

My first attempt just used patch modelling with creating a 200mm high 6000mm radius cylinder trimmed down to a 1/4 for items like the corners of the pavement.

 

Anyway got any good tips of tutorials?

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[Wojciech Klepacki]

Hey Mike!

When it comes to terrain or pavement model I turn to Rhinoceros. You can find it here: http://www.rhino3d.com/ . It gives me flexibillity and accuracy of site modeling. Moreover You can export it to AutoCAD (as ACIS *.sat files) and to MAX/Viz as IGES or 3DS. The most important is that Rhino is similar to AutoCAD so You can reduce the learninig time. Good tutorial included. Best regards

[STRAT]

how do you model ur terrains? thats a tough one as there are so many different methods and ppl have their own ways of doing things.

 

personally i try to keep my sites absolutely on the flat and level and only give the pavement some hight.

 

I draw the site plan in autocad using lines and arcs, then DXF it into Viz to loft it to give it surface and kerb depth.

 

If i do have a site which is hilly or contoured i'll draw 3d poly lines in autocad and face up or rulesurf between them to create the depth. i find i get more accuracy drawing it this way.

 

here is a hidden line wireframe example straight from autocad of a recent job i did. This is only a section of it. the actual site plan (not the buildings) took me about 2 working days to draw:

 

 

and here are a couple of renders off it:

 

 

[Ricardo Eloy]

Nice renders, Strat!

About your question, I just "developed" a pretty weird way to get my terrains done. It's fast, smooth and unusual. I pick the contours from AutoCAD (since they're always from it!) and extrude them to levels on Max. So far, they look like one of those physical models we all did in college, only showing the different levels. The trick is (and it works very well, in spite of what it may sound like) to use ClothReyes to create the final terrain mesh. I simply throw a hexamesh over the terrain (which has to be an unique mesh object then) and let ClothReyes calculate the rest. With a couple of settings here and there, it makes a smooth well-organized terrain mesh, very light and easy to edit. I'll try to find some images of terrains I made this way and post them, if you like.

As I said, it sounds very weird, but works wonders!

[]

Rick

[quizzy]

well why not use the terrain tool from VIZ/MAX??

 

or cross-section and surface modifiers...

 

[ November 14, 2002, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: quizzy ]

[STRAT]

i find that a pretty poor tool for any kind of accuracy.

[quizzy]

Hey strat about the images, what kind of GI/Radiosity did you use??

it looks a little like renderdrive...

 

and the trees are NAtFX?? or something similar??

 

[ November 14, 2002, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: quizzy ]

[STRAT]

rendering - Cinema4d radiosity, low settings.

 

trees - C4D tree plug-in from maxon - http://www.maxon.net/jumps/exteriors_e.html

[vizwhiz]

hi There

 

i have tried to use the VIZ Terrain tool

not as user-friendly as it is more user un-friendly

 

for flat work i make a really big cylinder with a radius maybe 10 or 20x of the site work and add some kind of generic material to achieve a ground plane

 

then,

 

go from the TOP of that make a pavement surface 4 inches thick that covers the entire site project

 

from the TOP of the pavement surface

 

then add curbs/sidewalks up 4 or 6 inches

then add grass landscape up 2 or 3 inches

 

then add the building foundation up 8 inches

then add the building on TOP of the foundation

 

ok, why ??

 

because, This way if you have an under-lying pavement and if you need to move the street or change the sidewalks there will always (already) be a substrate for the pavement so no matter what kind of changes comes along the medians and intersections you will already be ready

 

the etc stuff just floats on top of the pavment

or dirt or it could even be a grass field underneath if that is what the project requires

 

just an Idea

 

FlatLand = 0

 

Thanks

 

vizwhiz

[HeDaCoM]

The best. faster way is to use the terrain of VIZ. it's great when you have very complex terrain contours. not simplex concentric contours it's great.

For a high detailed terrain surface... Autodesk Land desktop is better.

but... of course. rhino3d is a very good (if not the best) surface modeler to desing new terrains

another way to desing a new terrain.... painting a grayscale map and applying a displacement map over a surface in VIZ... but I don't like this too much.

[Ricardo Eloy]

I really don't think using the Terrain tool is such a good idea. I tried to use it several times, but the results were always awful....The resulting mesh is always triangulated, hard to edit. I found it very hard to work with if you have a complex teraind with lots of ups and downs....

[]

Rick

[mzagorski]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I ended up using a method going from autocad to Viz4 with a DWG file, loft my splines and stick them on top of the overall road surface underneath (like Rick was saying..)

 

 

Here's what I was aiming for.

 

Strat... I am guessing that you model curbs and pavement seperately for texturing reasons?

 

Mike

[STRAT]

i model up the kerbs and pavement as 1 lofted object, but i change the material ID over for the separate materials.

 

Also, it's not always the best idea to model site plans up as layers on top of layers (as vizwhiz was saying) because some software, including Viz, will sometimes suffer 'light leakage' and shadow problems in this type of circumstance.

It's always a good idea to loft and model using snuggly fitting and matching verts where possible.

ie - dont layer your various levels, always try to match up corresponding verts and edges.

 

[ November 14, 2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: STRAT ]

[CHE]

Strat,

 

Could explain your lofting process with a little more detail? I would appreciate it. Thanks

[STRAT]

OK CHE, here's how i do it, in a nutshell, as easy as i can make it for a flat site -

 

1) draw your site plan using lines and arcs. I tend to stay away from plines if possible. Make sure the lines and arcs have all verts joining up together perfectly - no over lapping or gaps. Also make sure each set of lines/arcs forms an enclosed space.

Also, make sure you make these lines in either the same colour or layer.

 

2) export all that lot as a DXF file.

 

3) import the DXF into Viz, accepting the lines as Colors or Layers.

Select all the verts of a particular object, then WELD all the corresponding end points together to form closed polygons in the shaper.

 

4) then click on EXTRUDE modifier and give it a height to see the finished product.

If it only extrudes the sides and doesn't cap it off this is usually down to the fact the polylines aren't properly closed or welded.

 

That was an extremely quick and simple way to do it. there are loads of methods. hope this helped.

[CHE]

Hehehe, I guess I didn't understand you at first (language barrier? :???: ) That's exactly how I do it. Thanks for being patient and taking the time to reply.

[STRAT]

hey, no probs

[quizzy]

Yep CHE,

 

They were talking about lofting... well extruding is a kind of lofting.. so there you go..

 

cheers

[mzagorski]

Thanks all.. I got my model done like I had wanted... and even have different coloured curbs ) Sweet...

 

http://www.mikezagorski.com/architecture.php

[HeDaCoM]

oops !! Great STRAT. I never realized it is possible to extrude non coplanar lines

that's very nice.

[Eric]

I must be working in the stone age or something. I model everything in Autocad2000. Site, parking/paint lines, street signs/lamps, curb, pavement, building, site slopes (though I've generally not been had to do major slopes on a site). The "Whole 9 Yards". The only thing I do in VIZ is materials, lighting, and rendering, as well occasionally bending something that I can't do in Autocad2000.

 

I almost always find extruding polylines inside of Autocad to be the easiest method of modeling architectural stuff, particularly site stuff. Quite frankly, I've never even considered the possibility of doing sites inside of VIZ. Might have to give it a try sometime.

 

A question... Is it possible to get a nice looking (smooth) contoured site by smoothing an extruded site plan that (before smoothing) looks like one of the old cardboard layered site models created by hand? I've taken a topo drawing and extruded each contour/elevation line and basically created a 3D study model. Can that model then be smoothed inside of VIZ for accectable results? An example can be seen at www.adcad.com in the 3D graphics section. It's the white model. Ignore the website. It's a work in progress for my company.

[quizzy]

Simple: No!

 

But if you would remove all extrude modifiers, and attached all splines and add a terrain object to it, you wuld get a smooth result you are looking for

[proces2]

the meshing in Viz is also going be a problem for the technique of layering the site model. when the radiosity meshes the file, you are going to add ALOT of mesh in places that it will never be seen.

 

if you reduce the mesh size for just the underlying pieces (ie-roadway), then you get poor shadowing where anything intersects the roadway (ie-sidewalks).

 

until adaptive subdivision shows up in max/viz (it better happen!), i would stay away from the layering method.

 

sean

[vizwhiz]

hi There

 

Eric,

 

"dont feel so all alone, everybody lets get ..."

 

This quote is from "Rainy Day Women" by B. Dylan

 

i am right There with you, i am "cad-disadvantaged" to some degree

so far about 30,000 hours doing autocad but only a fraction of that doing the VIZ

 

i love to read all the communistications on the webgroups

that is primarily how i have been learning to use the VIZ

 

learning by doing and reading all The Posts

 

Thanks to Strat and the Others i am just starting to finally understand how to actually use VIZ, and not just use acad only for the 3d modeling

 

"one of the days Alice"

 

vizwhiz

[vizwhiz]

hi There

 

proces2

 

(hey say hi to Odin for me)

 

the layering in VIZ technique that i have been using started in V3 without radiosity mainly because i had to do a 1/4 mile square neighborhood site study for a City of Phoenix Fire Department Station and the city/architect kept changing the approach/exit requirements for the medians and intersection(s) to the Fire Station.

 

i got tired of cutting and re-working the road/curb interconnections and finally just put a major plane under the entire site (and added a generic material to it)

 

but now that Radiosity is an option or consideration is it possible to exclude the base pavement (or other material) from the radiosity calculations ?? would this eliminate the light leaks and other issues that you mentioned ??

 

i consider myself as "approaching" the intermediate level of understanding so please let me know what and how is a better way to do This, because i primarily do site/exterior projects and animations

 

Thanks

 

vizwhiz