thesis "Architectural visualization"

[jorisAR]

Hi everyone,

I'm a student Architecture and I'm starting my final year now.

For my final year, my degree, I have to make a thesis.

Since I'm very much interested in rendering, modelling,.... I have chosen the subject 'architectural visualization', cause in my school it isn't that much important for the teachers so most of the students don't know how to make proper renders.

For that reason I want to make a comparison between all kinds of render engines...going from Scanline max over Mental ray to Vray.

The idea is to take a specific architectural scene and render it with all those different renderers. I want to focus on quality versus rendering time.... an important issue considering that time is money in the business.

Also when to use what kind of render in what situation....for example a quick test render, a render for a competition, a big project for your country.

From wich stage of the building project a render is used...perhaps for building, to make it clearer for the workman...

The next thing I want to discuss is how rendering is used in the practice. The plan is to search some bureaus and to ask some questions concerning that subject, what programs they use...etc.If renders are important for them or if they are only a nice extra.

Make a comparison between small and big bureaus...in the way they work.

Then third part: mention the most common rendereres and show what is possible with them....to show to my fellow students that it is really possible to make realistic renders.

This is also the part where I'm going to talk about rendering specific architectural scenes....how to light interiors, how to light exteriors, how to make animations. Really focussing on architecture.

In this chapter discussing important things like: IES, HDRI, sun system, global illumination, light bounces,scanline, radiosity, how to light what kind of architectural scene,...

It's not my goal to make tutorials but showing what is possible.... make renders to show the difference between global illuminatuion on and off, what IES, HDRI does.

After that perhaps focussing on Vray, the render of my choice and why it is my render of choice.

And perhaps last part...the future of rendering, what will happen after realistic rendering, cause this is already possible in an "easy" way.

stuff like holograms, 3D walk throughs in virtual reality on a high level.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

What do you think of the subject, does it seem interesting.

Are there other things that I can do, discuss.... all tips and ideas are welcome.

I'd aprreciate all help....

Greetz

Joris (Belgium)

[BrianKitts]

I like the idea.... but at most universities in the US, you would probably be asked to write a more specific thesis.

 

Your topic is VERY broad.... and you could easily write a large novel on the subject of visualization. It's kind of like you picked your thesis to be the ocean, but to show any skill the professor would probably rather see you pick a single fish, then go in and dissect every aspect of that individual entity. I'm not sure you could properly cover each and every topic you mentioned throughly enough to be called a thesis... that is without writing 500 pages on each of the many topics you covered.

 

In the case of archictural vis I would think something more along the lines of "Architectual Visualization and it's incorporation with modern Architectural Practice"..... err something like that. Like I mentioned a thesis should be a specific well crafted point backed up by an in-depth analysis.... where you could cover workflow, the benefits of three-dimensional coordination with design, etc...

 

A good starting point as your thesis statement will set yourself up for success. Think the whole way though the process when you generate your primary idea.

 

 

good luck to ya!

[Brian Smith]

there's probably only a handful of people in the world that would know 2 or more render engines well enough to compare them properly...i doubt anyone know all the big ones...if you're new to the industry, you are better off sticking to a small topic rather than taking on the impossible task of comparing render engines...that would take a group of highly trained individual working side by side for quite a while...just my 2 cents

[See3D.be]

Hi Joris,

 

If you need info on real-time visualisation - walkthrough, you can nok on my door.

[jackb602]

The most important thing you need to do is radically narrow the subject of your thesis. You should be able to state it clearly in one sentence. I can't overstate how essential this is.

 

I would also discourage you from comparing rendering engines. This would be a good subject for something like 3D World magazine, but not for an academic research project.

 

After that perhaps focussing on Vray, the render of my choice and why it is my render of choice.

 

How can you have a renderer of choice before you've begun your research?

 

Try to turn one of the ideas in your post into a very specific question. Best of luck with your thesis.

 

Jack

[AJLynn]

Also, I'd be concerned with a thesis like that getting too far into the technicalities of visualization, which is not architectural design (which is what I'm assuming you're studying). If you're interested in visualization I'd suggest something more to do with a theoretical approach to representation.

[Ricardo Eloy]

When I graduated (like 7 years ago), I wrote a paper about how CG can change our environment. Back then, things were not as advanced as today (there were only a few softwares), but it was a nice research. I found it very interesting, specially when I realized some architects were limiting their creations to what the software was capable of. For example, VectorWorks (called MiniCAD 6, then) couldn't create round walls. Coincidence or not, all 3 architects that I interviewed who used it simply did not have a single round wall in their designs. They were told it was hard or not possible and would come up with a new solution. Creepy.

[shaneis]

"And perhaps last part...the future of rendering, what will happen after realistic rendering, cause this is already possible in an "easy" way.

stuff like holograms, 3D walk throughs in virtual reality on a high level.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this."

 

...now THAT would be an interesting thesis. Sure, touch on all the other parts you mentioned, but to try to break down the major renderers is a rather futile exercise. I don't mean to offend, but unless you're prepared to head into the depths of the (very) complicated mathematics behind physical light and compare the (very) complicated mathematics behind each renderer, you won't be able to make an objective conclusion - it will be opinion only.

 

Ask Pixar which is the best renderer - they'll answer "Renderman", ask Mental Images the same question - they'll answer "Mental Ray".

 

An educated look into the future of rendering within the Architectural Industry would be fascinating.

 

There you go, my $0.02

 

[Dave Buckley]

yep yep definately pcik a much smaller aspect for your thesis, and be careful, i chose to do my thesis on 'the use of advanced lighting and rendering to create photorealistic visualizations in max 9 and mental ray', this soon turned into, an investigation into the technical aspects of how the mental ray render engine works. It all depends if your course is classed as art or science BA or BSc in my terms, if it is art then they want to see that you can make the nice looking renders, if it is science they are more interested in whether you are fully aware of the science behind the image looking so nice. So basically the maths, physics and other technicalities that work inside the render engine. Don't wanna put you off but the word 'algorithm' comes into play a lot when talking technical about rendering.

[AJLynn]

But he said he's an architecture student... you can't actually do a thesis like that in architecture school, can you?

[Dave Buckley]

you can do your thesis on whatever you want, my degree was digital film technology and 3d animation and i wrote my thesis on arch viz so i guess you can, if he really wanted to, he could write about mythical architecture of the lost city of atlantis if he wanted too : P its still related to architecture (that actually sounds quite an interestin title haha)

[newdirection]

Agree with most of above. I'm studying architecture at the moment and I think the technicalities of how rendering engines work would be over most peoples heads (apart from geeks like us on the forum) and would be very complicated.

 

How viz. is influencing design is interesting though. I seem to remeber getting into a discussion about this:

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/23919-use-computers-designing-buildings.html

 

Plenty of opposing views on so lots of material. Is CG a neccesary design tool now? Are we able to build things we couldn't before? How do you communicate emotion through CG? The future of design communication etc. You could touch on technqiues and software without getting really technical. A lot of practices would find this interesting.

 

Just my opinion. Good luck.

[aaron-cds]

But he said he's an architecture student... you can't actually do a thesis like that in architecture school, can you?

 

I agree with Andrew. Then again, we're not your advisors. I am curious how you think arch-viz rendering is a direct relation to architecture. I could understand someone doing a thesis on the new asthetic in architecture that is only possible with the use of complex 3d software. What you're proposing seems to be no different than doing a thesis that compares colored pencils to markers. Mental Ray, Vray, Maxwell, Scanline - those are all just fancy colored pencils used to illustrate a design in a realistic fashion. To me, that's nothing to do with architecture, and this is coming from an architect who uses fancy colored pencils.

[Dave Buckley]

hmmmmmm, not to sure on the geek comment : p (speak for yourself there lol), but yeh it would be over a lot of peoples heads, i'd say i only touched the surface but still managed to write a 20,000 word essay on how final gather works lol

[newdirection]

I meant geek purely in an endearing way!

 

20,000 words on Final Gather? I'm interested!

[Dave Buckley]

Revit Architecture has a massive focus around visualization being a part of the software, and Revit is focused directly at architects. But i suppose it depends on how you look at it. If you think that a lot of buildings and structures are not given the nod until they are visualized then i would say it has a big direct link with the architecture in today's society

[Dave Buckley]

I meant geek purely in an endearing way!

 

20,000 words on Final Gather? I'm interested!

 

i wouldn't be too interested, because i can assure you, it wasn't that interestin writing it, i spent a a third of my year researching, and third of my year learning then the final third was spent typing it up, i only managed to do one still image for the practical side of things, thats how much of a technical degree it was, (and aparently i still didn't go techncial enough for a First Class Degree), think they were looking for a computer science kinda technical level, where i only really had time for top surface workings. That just shows how big a subject rendering can be when it comes to writing a thesis on it

[AJLynn]

Revit Architecture has a massive focus around visualization being a part of the software, and Revit is focused directly at architects. But i suppose it depends on how you look at it. If you think that a lot of buildings and structures are not given the nod until they are visualized then i would say it has a big direct link with the architecture in today's society

 

Agreed, but architecture school is not usually focused like that - in school at least, architectural marketing isn't architecture. And anyway, what's the point in comparing render engines for a thesis project when render engines change every year? If I were the advisor I wouldn't allow it, and I wouldn't allow any kind of a study if visualization technology itself without a very strong argument convincing me that it was within the discipline of design theory - without this, a jury at any architecture school I've had any experience with wouldn't give a passing grade.

[Dave Buckley]

ok fair point, i can neither agree nor disagree i have never been to architecture school, but i hear what your saying

[womble]

You really need to be careful; what you're suggesting sounds more like a tutorial than a thesis. If you want to write about CG, you need to relate it to the field of architecture. For example I wrote an essay similair to this, but I related all work to my experience within an architectural practice. I wrote about the various forms of visualisation, when they were used, why they were used, what effect they had on the firm, what could be done better.

 

Academic essays/thesis are all about analysis and evaluation. You just need to be very, very careful about defining a point that you want to convey, and putting it accross while maintaining a link with the field of architecture.

[Tommy L]

I would agree that dissecting 3d tools is not a valid topic for an architecture degree thesis. It is like asking how the parallel motion drawing board is built. Visualisation process itself is not a field of study, visualisation as a design component is.

What do your tutors think?

[tecton3d]

as a fellow arch student working on an M.Arch thesis... as already mentioned, i really think you need to re-evaluate whether you want a technically based thesis or an investigation into the greater depths of the computer used for the REpresentation of architectural ideals... which is far more interesting to most of us than an elongated chart of features of each software.

 

I know here at VT, there have been M.Arch theses done about 3d software, hell ~ one guy even wrote his own program... it's just up to you and your committee as to what they and more importantly YOU want from the thesis.

[jorisAR]

Okay guys,

First of all thanks for so many replies, here's the only forum I got some replies.

Then next; sorry that I answer this late, but I worked very hard for an architect in the vacation, went on a vacation to canada...and so on.

 

I know that what I posted was very broad..it was the first things that came into my head...but at our school there's only one tutor with whom I can talk about this subject so I wanted some other visions on this matter (what I got from you all )

 

To answer the question if I can take this subject or not, the answer is 'yes'. Apparently there are a lot of differences between countries, but that's kind of interesting.

In our school in the last two years there's a division in seminars, and one of them is 'art' so a lot is possible. And I have two tutors who are with me concerning the subject. They also that there aren't any thesis' made on this matter in our school....

 

About the subject itself; throughout my search for documentation, contacts, forums...I realized that I chose very broad. So I had to narrow it down.

I rejected the idea of comparing render engines, didn't realize it was this much work. What I do want to do is...show the evolution, scanline to radiosity to GI ...

Also explain some techniques like the use of HDRI, IES (interesting for architects to test some lights the client wants), I want to do this cause in our school most of student don't now anything about rendering, lighting...except pressing the button F9..

That in combination with a visit to some visualization bureau's, cause there are some visualization bureau's here in Brussels that were started by architects, and they only take architects to work their, so that means that there's an interest amongst architects in visualization.

So that's going to be the practical part of my thesis.

 

Another part will be about the renderings themself, when they are used within the building process..made for who, by who, what quality...

Also thinking about the question; are realistic renderings necessary? What about that realism, perhaps I'll maken a comparaison between some bureau's who use a different technique of rendering.

What about bringing 'feeling and emotions' in a rendering....mostly created by not realistic rendering..

And what after realistic rendering, the walkthroughs and stuff...what are the new developments within this industry?!

(see3D.be if it still counts I'm interested in real-time visualization and walkthrough...ik ben van lanaken, kan ik je ergens bereiken, of bellen of zo een keer?)

 

So that's my reply, from now on, I will view my posts faster than I did untill now.

 

Thanks again for the many replies, you reallu helped me. Cause it's difficult for me to do things like writing big texts about something, we never had to do something like that so...

 

greetz

Joris

[Tommy L]

You just said you were narrowing it because it was too broad.......then you opened it up again!

Choose a VERY specific subject where you can do original research. You are still broaching about 5 or 6 topics from what you said in your last post.

 

BTW; I think the core of your idea, evolution of scanline to radiosity to GI is maybe a bit redundant. Sounds more valid for a history thesis. But if your tutor says its fine then hey, go for it.

[womble]

If your course is in 'Architectural Design' or something along those lines then I would really, really, really not advise writing your thesis on your current basis.

 

It sounds like you are focusing far too much on the technical aspects of computer visualisation. Lets relate it to phsyical modelling, would your tutor be happy about you writing a thesis on how different types of card/glue/lighting techniques matter to model making? I really doubt it. What you MUST do is analyse and evaluate 3D Visualisation with respect to Architectural Design.

 

Without plainly describing how different 3D rendering engines work you must relate the use of Architectural Visualisation to the Architectural Design Industry. Your thesis could for example focus on Gehry's use of BIM modelling/Digital Project with projects such as the Disney Concert hall and how visualisation has helped to achieve projects such as this, and how architects such as Zaha Hadid are now employing software such as this.

 

Unless I am totally misunderstanding your situation, if you are in an Architecture School, studying design, and writing an Architectural Thesis for your degree, then please, please do not focus on the differences between different rendering packages.