Dimensions in Model and Paper spaces

[bobbean]

Hello all, first posting for me and a real noob to it all.

 

Just trying to get my head around why when i insert a dimension, using a Dimension Style that I have made, it is totally visible ( text,lines and arrows etc) in paper space-layout1, yet not visible in Model or Layout 2.

 

And If I try to draw dimensions in Model, it draws only lines ( no text, dimensions, arrows or extension) and it is displayed like this in all layout tabs.

 

Just to add that this is in a Drawing Template that I have made also.

 

I have picked through, what seems, all possible settings and am still at a loss as to where I have instigated this change!

It is obviously my fault because if I open > acad.dwt all dimension are visible in all tabs

 

My thought now is that it has to be in my Drawing Template settings. Somewhere...

 

Thanks for reading through this, I hope it makes sense and isn't a silly question with too many missing variables

 

Bob

[bigroo]

If you draw in paper space, that's where it stays. As for the dimlines in model space, it's all to do with the scale you have set. Draw a dimline in model space & zoom into the ends. You'll have arrowheads (or whatever you prefer).

 

BTW, what version are you using?

[DanNegus]

You have different units for paperspace and modelspace. Assuming they are set to millimetres and metres respectively, then there's a 1000 x difference between them.

 

If you put dimensions in modelspace and you are producing a drawing at 1:1000 then the scale factor of the dimensions = 1. If 1:500 then scale factor = 0.5, 1:10 then 0.01 etc.

 

If you put dimensions in paperspace, then you have to change the unit scale factor instead.

 

Personally, I prefer dimensions in modelspace, in a separate layer so they can be turned off, as dimensions in paperspace can get detached from the object too easily by panning the viewport - can be important if it's a leader saying "This house to be demolished" on a row of houses!

[bigroo]

I also prefer to have various dim layers & use them only in model space. Set up family dimensions, it makes it so easy over time.

[JonRashid]

I agree with all that's been said apart from the Leonard quote. There are many creatures which generate their own light

[PAWUK]

And If I try to draw dimensions in Model, it draws only lines ( no text, dimensions, arrows or extension) and it is displayed like this in all layout tabs.

 

Dimension in model space.

 

Top of the page click on format scroll down to format dimension style. Box opens choose one of the styles click modify or click new to start a new style.

 

Click on Lines & Arrows tab choose which ever arrow head you want and alter size . Extension lines: extend beyond lines and offset from origin alter sizes

 

Text tab , adjust the text height

 

Primary unit: unit format, set to decimal. Precision set to zero unless you want point acurate

 

Hope this helps

[neko]

dan.

 

i'm not looking for a fight, but there is a whole lot of wrong and confusion in your suggestions. for the sake of the 'newbie' i must point them out....

 

You have different units for paperspace and modelspace. Assuming they are set to millimetres and metres respectively, then there's a 1000 x difference between them.

 

you draw objects in model space at real scale, whether it be metric or imperial. paper space represents paper or the plotted scale, and can be in any units you want the printed paper to represent. there does not have to exist a relationship or formula between model and paper space as you suggest.

 

If you put dimensions in modelspace and you are producing a drawing at 1:1000 then the scale factor of the dimensions = 1. If 1:500 then scale factor = 0.5, 1:10 then 0.01 etc.

 

if real objects are drawn real size in model space (you agree ?) then the dimension style,and other annotations, are typically dependent on the scale factor. a better example would be to say if you want to print a drawing at 1:100, then your dimension scale is 100. you formula has needless confusion and calculation.

 

If you put dimensions in paperspace, then you have to change the unit scale factor instead.

 

paperspace was created to remove this issue. you are dealing with a piece of paper. if you draw in paperspace, it is related to a sheet of real paper - there should be no need for scale factor in paperspace. dimensioning in paperspace (which i don't do) is actually getting very intuitive from 2007

 

Personally, I prefer dimensions in modelspace, in a separate layer so they can be turned off, as dimensions in paperspace can get detached from the object too easily by panning the viewport - can be important if it's a leader saying "This house to be demolished" on a row of houses!

 

i agree for the most part. sorry to cut your opinion to pieces - if it works for you then fine, but i don't think that is a very conventional approach, nor is it a good idea for new users.

[DanNegus]

Paul,

 

I think your being needlessly picky despite not looking for a fight, the example I gave was for SI units and is correct, you must have skipped over the phrase "Assuming they are set to millimetres and metres respectively", obviously if other units are being used then there will be a different relationship, but there will still be a relationship even if thats 1 to 1.

 

Model space is for real size objects, of course, yet dimension scale and text sizes of objects placed in model space will need to be set dependant on the viewport scale.

 

The scale factor I mentioned for the example of putting dimensions in paperspace is the unit scale factor not the size scale factor - modifying the reported distance not the scale of the dimension. This will need to be set if different units are used in modelspace and paperspace.

 

Personally I think anyone who puts objects which refer to modelspace coordinates in paperspace is asking for trouble but each to their own.

[neko]

dan.

 

i guess what confuses me about your approach is why would you use different units in model space and paper space ?

 

i'm sure you know this, but there is no such thing as metric in autocad - it is decimal. it is up to you to decide what that unit represents, whether that be decimal millimeters or inches, so why would you choose to confuse it by having different units from model to paper ?

 

why not have your paper space viewport (and titleblock, i assume) in millimeters as well. that way you wouldn't have the needless scale calculation that you suggested.

 

again, if it works for you that is fine, but it certainly is an unusual approach, and not one i'd recommend to others.

[DanNegus]

Paul,

 

I'll think you'll find its not that uncommon in the UK, certainly in civil engineering, the field in which I work. Paperspace tends to be in millimetres, model space either metres or millimetres depending essentially on the size of the model. When using Ordnance Survey data or survey to national grid coordinates this tends to be 6 figure grid coordinates in metres.

 

I have worked on designs in the Bahamas, the model space units for that were in digital feet, if you can imagine such a thing! Essentially it depends on the survey that is provided.

 

Later versions of AutoCAD (2006 onwards), allow the units to be defined in the drawing file, anything from millimeters to light years as appropriate, and autamatically scale anything that is xrefed or inserted to suit.

[bigroo]

Paul,

 

I'll think you'll find its not that uncommon in the UK, certainly in civil engineering, the field in which I work. Paperspace tends to be in millimetres, model space either metres or millimetres depending essentially on the size of the model.

 

I have a difference of opinion as I work in Engineering (Structural Engineering) & model & paper space are both mm. Same goes for any CGI.

 

I agree with all that's been said apart from the Leonard quote. There are many creatures which generate their own light

 

Ha ha. Perhaps fireflys hadn't been born then!!

[neko]

I'll think you'll find its not that uncommon in the UK, certainly in civil engineering, the field in which I work. Paperspace tends to be in millimetres, model space either metres or millimetres depending essentially on the size of the model. When using Ordnance Survey data or survey to national grid coordinates this tends to be 6 figure grid coordinates in metres.

 

interesting - i know civil engineering works in large units/scale, but i think this is something best avoided if at all possible..... and is not at all common in architecture.

 

Later versions of AutoCAD (2006 onwards), allow the units to be defined in the drawing file, anything from millimeters to light years as appropriate, and autamatically scale anything that is xrefed or inserted to suit.

 

you are thinking of the insert scale, which only applies to inserting blocks and xrefs. the drawing scale is set by the UNITS command and is either decimal / imperial.

 

you will have an interesting time with your approach when/if you upgrade to 2008 and use the new annotative scale concept.

 

anyways, i think i have been responsible for hijacking this thread. i hope the original questions (and maybe some unexpected ones) were answered.

[bobbean]

Thank you to all who responded.

After going through my settings on the relative scales I realised I was comparing

kilometers to millimeters. A few extra zero can really do it for you.

Cheers Dan, your explanation made me headslap myself "Doh"

 

Once again thanks all, great forum

 

Bob