Should I learn MicroStation?

[3darchitect]

I'm a young student working towards my Masters degree in architecture. I've been required by my program to take a virtual modeling class that teaches Microstation as the primary modeling and design tool of the day.

 

I have a small self-taught background in 3D modeling using 3DS Max. I've been working with it for about 1.5 yrs now, and am relatively far along (for being entirely self-taught that is). I'm happy that I get this opportunity to learn Microstation because I know it will be very beneficial for me to have experience with multiple programs, and so I welcomed this opportunity.

 

But here's my catch. I've never touched Microstation before this, and thus far, have found it difficult to navigate through and do simple tasks. I'm used to the ADT and 3DS interface, and Microstation is VASTLY different (in my opinion).

 

Now, technically I'm allowed to use any program I chose to complete the assignments because they are renderings that are not marked by any specific program. However, if I come to a point where I can't figure something out, I can't ask for help (if I am using a program other than Microstation). Without getting into the details, I am awarded in several ways if I maintain an A average in the class, and this can only be done by submitting "perfect" or "beyond the expectations" work.

 

I'm taking 18 credits this semester with a Computer Science minor. I'm a full time member of my University's orchestra, as well as owning a professional string quartet outside of school. I also have an internship with an architecture firm that I do renderings for. Needless to say, I have no life. I can go to class and learn Microstation, but I don't have the capability to spend extra time learning how to make exceptional renderings in Microstation. I know that I'll be able to produce better and faster renderings with my current knowledge of 3ds Max.

 

Ok, that was very long and drawn out - sorry for rambling, but I need to decide what I'm going to do here.

[Justin Hunt]

As an old time user of Microstation, whilst its rendering capabilities are powerful they are way, way behind that of Max. However the modeling is powerful and robust. Its able to handle huge data sets. Its Xref manager is second to none.

 

Once you have worked out the dwg linking workflow between Micrstation and Max, it becomes very easy to keep modeling in MS and rendering in Max. Which in my opinion is a far better option than rendering in just MS.

 

I would say, defitiley take the oportunity to learn MS while you can. It wont be waisted. In the long run the more you can put on you resume in terms of packages the more desirable you become to employers.

 

JHV

[Claudio Branch]

For now, I think you should use whatever tool you are the most productive with and it sounds like that is Max/AutoCad.

 

With everything else you have going on, why put yourself through the added stress and the uncertainty of the results you will achieve?

 

What is the point of learning several similiar 3D applications anyways? Better to be very strong in 1 or 2 than to be average in several.

 

Build your portfolio instead.

 

Most importantly, just use the tools that you actually ENJOY using.

[Dave Buckley]

Revit all the way, the interporability between Revit and Max is perfect for rendering your Revit models to a high standard. Revit is the tool of the future for all those architects/AutoCAD users outhere.

[Tommy Burns]

I currently use Microstation for all my modelling and then file link into Max for rendering this works very well. I think that modelling in Microstation is way faster than max and more accurate. The Accudraw tool in Microstation is the real reason it is faster than Max and you must learn how to use it properly to benefit from it. In Micrstation XM they have introduced some sketchup based tools and these are amazing.

Microstation also has a BIM package like Revit its called Bentley Architecture. While this is not as easy to use as Revit there are plans to role out another update of this and this is called Athens due out next year I think. I have seen this at a conference in Los Angeles and it looks to be every bit as good if not better as Revit.

Mainly what I do is all my modelling in Microstation and if I need anything out of the ordinary I find max very powerful in achieving this.

Really it all depends on how good you are at Max modelling to warrant a changeover but MS is really fast and very accurate plus they are working hard on improving BIM. This program works in conjunction with MS so there won't be as much to learn in the long run

Hope this helps ya!!!

[Paul Griger]

Hey Luke,

 

I'm @ SARUP, is this 281 w/Talbott?

 

MS and I don't get along well. The program is not intuitive to the way I operate. I used a different program [ArchiCAD] for most of the projects.

 

If you use another program you should be ok for the duration, but be warned; towards the end of the semester there are assignments that you can only achieve the look Talbott and his TA's are looking for w/MS. It's a pretty cool look [renders lines of objects kinda like Sketchup, but you manually control the lineweight of each line individually.]

 

I skipped all lectures after the first day, and skipped most discussions until the end and I got an 'A'. You can resubmit assignments to get full credit. This year SARUP bought MS XM v8.0 which looks vastly improved over v7.5, so maybe give it a try and see what you think.

 

Regardless of what you pick, make sure to have quality renderrings because you'll need them to put into your portfolio for submission to Level II, and competition is brutal to get in. I lost a few mates from last year cause they got cut

 

BTW, last year we could BUY our way out of the final exam by paying $50 to join some online group.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

SARUP Studio room #394

[Spooner04]

I took a semester of Microstation during my undergrad work and I couldn't stand using it. I've got a lot of friends that use it and they like it. I think it's personal preference really, and it's "intuitiveness" is based on whether or not you learned Auto Cad first, imho. If you're interested in learning both at some point, I think it would be better to start sooner than later.

[rpompeu]

Hi luke,

I'm a microstation user since 99, my first job was translating it's user guide to portuguese, about 4 months ago I started to learn max and I'm loving the results.

I agree with everything Justin Hunt said (I've seen his works and they are really good).

Microstation is a billion times better and faster to model architecture as we do, but to achieve nice renders takes more time then a semester starting from zero... but you can achieve then, that's for sure (take a look at my site for some examples http://www.panoramad.com.br , all made just with microstation and photoshop). I really think that you should take this class, I think you can discover that microstation is a really powerful tool for both 2D and 3D, and if you can't achieve a good render you can try the dwg linking workflow between Micrstation and Max as Justin said.

Hope I could help you.

Cheers

 

Nes Romero: examples from MS SE? c'mon! this version is from 1995!

[Parker1]

I am VERY biased as I learned MS in college and have been using it for almost 13+ years now. The newest build of MS XM is amazing, and very AutoCAD-ish. The speed and accuracy of it's solids modeling tools is truly unmatched. Some have said that MS is the LEXUS, AUDI, & INFINITY of the CADD world while AutoCAD remains the Toyota, VW, & Honda of the industry. Learn both...why not. Give XM a try and see what happens. As for rendering...definitely check out our thread on the MS section of CGA. You will want to take your DGN from MS and export it as a DWG in order to link it into MAX to render it (with Vray preferably).

[3darchitect]

wow - thank you all who responded to my prompt. Although I have to admit, I'm still as undecided as ever lol. I realize the benefit of knowing multiple programs, and gladly accept any opportunity which might allow me to expand my range of programs. However, I have NOOOO time whatsoever to take the time to learn Microstation at an exceptional level. And if I want to forgo the final and blah blah blah, I need to present exceptional work. The other part, is just that because I have so much on my plate, and because I could get by with using my current knowledge, the idea of not having to worry about learning something knew is very appealing.

 

From what I hear, Microstation is a very powerful modeling and has good integration with MAX - I love MAX and VRay, I'm forced to use Mental Ray for now b/c I don't have the means to get VRay, but I love what MAX can produce, so I'm glad that I can at least keep that in my work flow.

 

The main thing that is deterring me from learning Microstation, is the fact that, in the first few days that I've tried to work with it, its been SO HARD and difficult to pick up on things. Its a very different interface than I'm used to, so I know it will take me longer to get used to how the program works.

 

I think for now, I'll try and utilize the instruction from this class, and attempt to make Microstation work in my workflow. Right now I model primarily in ADT and then a little in MAX. I know ADT is NOT the best for modeling by far, so I would be glad if I can learn Microstation enough to replace it.

[rpompeu]

hey Nes Romero, sorry if I sound (can I say this about something I wrote?!?!) rude, I just wrote this for him to know that this is a very old example and that nowadays we can get much better results.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

i used microstation later in my college years, and for a couple of years after graduating, mainly before switching to a visualization career full time. i only have experience on microstation J, and some experience on autocad, but no ta lot. for me, microstation is a lot more intuitive in the way it draws. if you want a line weight, you draw a line with that weight to it. i value things like that.

 

i will say that when i use autocad, it felt like a tool that had more tools for collaboration and integration, but the feel of it was similar to a low end car as described above.

 

i used to feel a similar way about macs vs pc. the pc's had a clunky feel to them, and the macs graphics were far superior to the unrefined interface of windows. which was rooted in broadcasting technical information to you, and not creating an interface that made logical sense. ...and this was OS9 vs windows NT, so none of the fancy stuff they have today.

 

funny, i am waxing nostalgic in me head about how windows NT and 2000 were rock solid operating systems compared to the fragile stuff that microsoft is putting out today.

 

anyway, you are worried about not getting the grade you want if you use other software. i would start by talking to your professor, and explaining the working methods you use, and why you use them. then tell them that you like to do the projects in your working method because you want the software to become second nature, so that you are not thinking about how to use the software, but only the design you are creating with the software.

 

i don't necessarily agree with this 100%, because it implies that you are becoming to focussed on one area, and not gaining a broader concept of what software has to offer as a whole.

 

i am partially writing this because people are quick to dismiss microstation because it is not the most popular application on the market. ..but i agree that is a fine piece of software, and when equating to cars, is a higher quality car.

 

the more i think about it, you are 19, and in school to learn. college is about getting a broad education, regardless of what it is in. if your other activities are truly messing with any aspect of your education, perhaps you should reconsider that activity, or cut it back.

[Frosty]

This is getting to be a long thread and I haven't read it all. I'm sorry if I'm repeating something already stated.

 

I believe all students should try to gain experience in as many pieces of software as possible. This can only help you in starting your career and in your understanding of how to problem solve your way through new software. You will ALWAYS be using new software, whether its a new version, the latest new thing, or your favorite app being bought by Adobe

 

It does sound like you've bitten off more that you can chew in a Graduate Architecture program though. In my experience, M. Arch requires full time focused attention.

[3darchitect]

It does sound like you've bitten off more that you can chew in a Graduate Architecture program though. In my experience, M. Arch requires full time focused attention.

 

Haha! I'm not even a Grad yet. I'm still in the "pre-architecture" program as a first semester sophomore.

 

Yea, I'm going to try and learn microstation if for anything else, than to have used the program to a marginal extent. Other posts in this thread have also said that the integration between MS and MAX is very good, and they are a very powerful combo (along with Vray). So, I'm going to give that a try.

 

Now, I just need to pray for money to fall from the sky so that I can pay for all this bloody stuff lol

[deevee84]

No!!!

[3darchitect]

no? no what?