Which application - it appears obvious!?

[niic]

Hi all,

 

I don't want to start some sort of war of the applications here so please keep this in mind when replying - I'm more interested in the future rather than individual opinion on the application itself. I'm more interested in community support.

 

We are looking at moving to 3D for a variety of reasons in order to create building interiors for corporate officers etc. with characters for our products.

 

Max or Maya?

 

We are looking at either Maya Complete or Max 9 at the moment to support our proposed 3d production environment. The price difference is considerable (£1,100 more for Max). Maya Complete has everything we need to create our required scenes in terms of tools however what it doesn't appear to have is the greater community support.

 

We are looking at a variety of material vender's like Dosch Design and Evermotion to supply us with high quality material however these all seem to support .max and a variety of 3d interchange formats but no native .mb/.ma.

 

3DMax appears to be a no-brainer answer to this question since much of the material already comes rigged for Vray requiring minimal effort to compose a scene and with little tweaking looks good.

 

The issue we are presented with is one of cost and skill. We already have Maya capable artists in our business so would like to take advantage of firstly this and secondly save on the cost difference. So I am wondering if Maya will start to pick up more support in this type of industry as time progresses or will 3DMax always retain the most dominant hold.

 

Any comments and/or suggestions would be great.

 

Regards,

Nick.

[Ernest Burden III]

We are looking at either Maya Complete or Max 9 at the moment to support our proposed 3d production environment...

I am wondering if Maya will start to pick up more support in this type of industry as time progresses or will 3DMax always retain the most dominant hold.

 

Or Cinema4D. That's what I use currently.

 

Max will maintain its dominant position in the arch-vis field. Perhaps Maya will make some in-roads. Both are capable. So look at cost, training, what sort of imagery you want to create or if you want to work more in an analysis/planning way (vs. realistic rendering).

 

What type of computers does you firm use or plan to use?

 

Max is WinOS only, 32 and 64 bit

Maya is WinOS, Linux and MacOS in 32 bit, WinOS and Linux in 64 bit

Maxon Cinema4D is WinOS and MacOS (Intel-based) in 32 and 64 bit (I thought they had a Linux version, but I don't see a mention of it on Maxon's site)

[frank1331]

Unfortuneately in the professional work time is money, so with users available who already know Maya, I think your fate may be sealed. My company went through a similar issue years back with a Form Z/ Max battle. Form Z won out at the time, because of users being more skilled, but years later the company realized they made a terrible mistake by not goiing the Max route. In my opinion Max is considered more of the architectural rendering standard. I also think that since Autodesk owns both, that it won't be too much longer before one program gets absorbed into the other.

 

I have seen some really good quality stuff coming out of Maya, but think that the Max stuff out there is better. Ultimately you will have to take things into Photoshop or some other program to clean them up and make adjustments anyway.

[gfa2]

The price difference is considerable (£1,100 more for Max).

 

If price is a major concern there is alway Autodesk VIZ...just like max but you loose some animation tools. It's quite a bit cheaper if I remember right.

[niic]

What type of computers does you firm use or plan to use?

 

Well the hardware will also be in review with the transformation to 3D so this is also up for discussion which is great in a way.

 

Unfortuneately in the professional work time is money, so with users available who already know Maya, I think your fate may be sealed.

 

The chaps would be excited to learn Max but obviously staying within a skillset is preferred from a business perspective. I have far more experience myself in Maya so would also rather this be the choice.

 

If price is a major concern there is alway Autodesk VIZ...just like max but you loose some animation tools. It's quite a bit cheaper if I remember right.

 

Yeah I looked into Viz and to be honest if we were to purchase it we might as well get Maya Complete and have the extra features. Our scene requirements are strictly aesthetic so we have no need for the CAD relationship in Viz.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated. I think to be honest the major killer at this point comes down to content and what is available. With most vender's distributing native .max vray ready scenes I think this will be the decision maker. To rig a scene in Maya for Mental Ray could possibly be far more time consuming to yield a result from simply purchasing ready material. With VRay 1.5 Beta for Maya now out it will solve the speed issue however unless the vender's start shifting native ma/mb data soon I think Frank you make a good point and looking to the future over costs is crucial.

 

Cheers,

Nick.

[BobM]

Hi Nick

 

Before you make a decisions may I suggest that you attend of the Autodesk MAKE AN IMPRESSION sessions over the next couple of weeks it will also give you the opportunity to discuss face to face with other using both Max and Maya and to see the 2008 versions. I am going to the London one on the 11th Oct see you there???

 

http://autodesk.elektonika.co.uk/m3_launch_07/edm_invitation.html

 

Regards

 

Bob

[3dway]

What kind of business do you run?

Do you model the objects that you're rendering?(you seemed interested in prefab entire scenes)

In what capacity do your artists know Maya already? as hobbyists on their own time? Do they spend that hobby time doing what your business does?

Do you carry any other Autodesk licenses? You said that you have no use for CAD. Do we assume that you don't model buildings from architects drawings? or you don't manipulate information in AutoCAD and filter and fix drawings in your 3d application.

 

This kind of information is important for offering advice on the topic. For example, it's generally held true that a 3d modeller's value to the company is in his ability to think and work in 3d dimensions and be able to sculpt anatomy and proportion (which could also apply to buildings I suppose). This skill set transfers almost universally across software packages, and learning a new software is just a matter of finding and figuring out what the tool you are looking for is called in the new software package. BUT, if your staff don't model anything, then this information is not of any value to you.

 

Need to know more.

 

You don't have to worry about the longevity of either software package since Autodesk owns both. Autodesk isn't going to disapear from the AEC industry barring any massive corporate take overs. They're probably going to continue the industry trends of tailoring Maya to the movie industry and Max to the AEC, and Gaming industries. Though Maya is running neck and neck in gaming with MAX and probably has to do with the slow steady integration of the movie and games industries.

[niic]

Before you make a decisions may I suggest that you attend of the Autodesk MAKE AN IMPRESSION sessions over the next couple of weeks it will also give you the opportunity to discuss face to face with other using both Max and Maya and to see the 2008 versions. I am going to the London one on the 11th Oct see you there???

Hey Bob… I have been looking at this but didn’t think it was coming to London or has reached registration capacity – appears only Manchester and Bristol remain?!?

1. What kind of business do you run?

2. Do you model the objects that you're rendering?(you seemed interested in prefab entire scenes)

3. In what capacity do your artists know Maya already? as hobbyists on their own time? Do they spend that hobby time doing what your business does?

4. Do you carry any other Autodesk licenses? You said that you have no use for CAD. Do we assume that you don't model buildings from architects drawings? or you don't manipulate information in AutoCAD and filter and fix drawings in your 3d application.

5. …BUT, if your staff don't model anything, then this information is not of any value to you.

6. You don't have to worry about the longevity of either software package since Autodesk owns both. Autodesk isn't going to disapear from the AEC industry barring any massive corporate take overs. They're probably going to continue the industry trends of tailoring Maya to the movie industry and Max to the AEC, and Gaming industries. Though Maya is running neck and neck in gaming with MAX and probably has to do with the slow steady integration of the movie and games industries.

Hi 3dway, good line of questions and I agree they are relevant to providing more informative advice.

1. I myself do not run, I have been given the job of looking at moving the companies material from 2D to 3D (simply because I have a background in 3D I suppose).

2. As a stand point we don’t intend to really build our own content simply because we can download material that is of high enough quality to use in our products. Anything bespoke that is needed and we don’t have in our libraries can then be built from scratch or modify existing material to fit.

3. All hobbyists and although further training will be required to work within the business model which will be developed we are able to pretty much hit the ground running since these skills are essentially transferable.

4. At this stage no we are completely 2D based and hold Adobe licenses. The move to 3D will allow us to add greater quality to our imagery and a second level of interactivity to our material.

5. A solid understanding of 3D at this stage is beneficial no matter what sort of experience there is. This can be developed further over the next 6months as we complete a full transition of our content.

6. I’m not at all worried about either being discontinued. At this stage and I would bet the near future (that being 5years) would not support a merger or discontinuation of either products. It is a hot topic and one I am interested to see how Autodesk will play it out. I would assume it will be proposed through conferencing like Siggraph and facilities have the chance to review the amalgamated application and look at eventual integration. The money invested in backend for either product is too great for it to simply be cut. Look what happened with Shake when Apple discontinued it!

The main decision will be ultimately governed by vendor support at this stage I think. I can easily download an Archmodels office scene and have a render ready for the client in a matter of a few hours. If we later wish to explore more custom material then 3D Max will allow us to grow into this with little effort. Maya will be far more of a struggle initially to deliver 3D content and so for this reason I think we have almost come to a decision.

 

I would prefer myself use Maya simply because I know the environment and can operate easily but I dont think that will be a sensible solution. Also as a whole there would be more Max artists in this particular area out there should we need to expand.

 

Cheers,

Nick.

[IC]

I've seen the future and the future is Modo.

[niic]

Modo is cool and with the sculpting tools it will be a serious contender to the heavy weights but I disagree it is the future - just my opinion though

[IC]

I was just throwing a spanner in. I don't even use Modo.

 

It is definitely the future though

[niic]

...that makes more sense