Max crash & Vray

[blowback]

hello,

 

It seems I am running into a max crash problem. This is happening on diffrent computers and diffrent scenes, and I try on both...and still max crashes. I have reinstalled max as someone suggested but to no avail. I cannot render anything bigger than 1400 X 900 at low vray settings without a crash. Static or Dynamic it doesnt matter. am I doing something wrong? Help...please... Here is the scene break down:

 

1 vray dome light with hdri map

3 proxy trees in front of the building

Vray displ. mod for the grass in forground

2d trees in bg

2d maps for the rest.

 

Harware

 

Dell precision 690

3gb of ram

Mac pro

3gb ram

 

Software

 

Max9

vray 1.5

[gfa2]

You've got a mac and a Dell listed, are you trying to use both of them at the same time with DR? I would think that could be a problem.

 

Have you tried writing straight to .vrimg instead of the frame buffer? That could help if it's a memory problem. Could be a material problem too, sometimes material problems don't show up until you up the resolution. There was an awesome script that did a great job of converting all material to Vray but it never got updated and was obsolete, but a new version just came out and I tried it with Vray 1.5 final and max 2008 and it works great. You might give it a try...do it on a copy of your scene in case it does weird things.

 

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/vraymtlconverter

[blowback]

Thaks for the input, I will try that script.i have a mac at home and a dell at work. I just wanted to say that i have tried on diffrent machines with the same crashing results. I am new to the .vrimg.

What do i do with that file? how do I get that into photoshop?

[gfa2]

For starters, use the vray frame buffer instead of the max frame buffer. Disable the 'Rendered Frame Window' option for the max frame buffer (under the common tab -> Render Output), also disable the Vray 'Render to memory frame buffer' and under 'v-ray raw image file' you can select Generate preview if you want to see it as it renders. Once the image is rendered you can use the vrimg2exr utility to convert to exr or in max you can choose 'View image file' under the File pull down menu then save it as any format you want.

 

This may seem like the long way around the block, but it will help with memory issues. It's also helpful to watch the Windows Task Manager while you are rendering to see how your RAM is doing.

[blowback]

Thanks,

 

I am a little worried because the past 2 renderings have given me this problem. I get close to the final render and I start crashing max. So cannot finish or set the final reneder to high quality settings.here is another one I have just worked on and I had the same crashing problem. my final solution was to render this out in small sections 6 @ 1000 X 600 and stich it together in ps. Not how i want to work..lol. the buildings and site trees are vr proxys and the mountain trees are 2d.

[dagor]

at first site it`s memory problem.

as gfa2 said, use VrayFrame bufer instead max. Render image in *.vrimg or *.exr format. also use Dynamic memory and limit to 2000 - 1600.

Set off your displacement and try to render image, remove your proxy and try to render it. Try to rende it in gray material. If all be ok, try to optimize geometry, texture size (what is your texture size?). I render big images (sometime 10000x7000pixels) for architecture and advertismet with alot of polys and light.

You need setup your scenes accurate and all be good.

[blowback]

thanks dagor,

 

i am trying a test right now. it seems that 2800 X 1800 image without raising the settings is working.If this works I will try the proxy trees next and set the dynamic mem. My texture sizes are 3mb for the brick and the grass and they are smaller for the trees and leaves. I still have more lights to add and I need the final image to be around 4000 X 3000. So how do you fill your foregroung with lush 3d vegitation and not crash max? I will keep testing post my findings.

[dagor]

i mean texture size in pixels.

if texture is 3mb it doesn`t fill 3mb of memory.

bitmap take memory:

width * height * color depth (8bit - requires 1 bytes/pixel, 16bit - requires 2 bytes/pixel, 24bit requires 3 bytes/pixel)

bitmap filtering also take more memory.

piramidal: width * height * 1byte

Summed: width * height * 12byte

 

so texture 1000*1000 with piramidal filtering take (1000*1000*3)+(1000*1000)=4000000 byte = 3.8mb

2000*2000 piramidal filtering 15.2mb !

3000*3000 piramidal filtering 34.3MB !!!

 

use /3Gb key in boot.ini file

this key alow windows use more memory than 2GB

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791558.aspx

[blowback]

sorry....lots to learn.

 

I reduced them to 1024 X 1024 @ 72dpi 8bit

Whats a good starting point, 512 X512,How low can you go without the texture looking brutal? I have been only doing this for about a year so sometimes there are fundamentals that I miss causing me much grief.

this bitmap issue is a real eye opener. I just tested a 1400 X 800 scene with 8 int. lights and a couple ext. lights and there was no problem.

I was pushing the limits of the memory but it rendered.

I also changed the dyn mem setting to 1600.

 

The " 3g key in boot" is the first thing I did today.

 

Thanks for the help....much appreciated

[dagor]

i use big texture but i plane my work in the begining. and i have not bad PC

if i know that it`s hard to use big texture - i use 1024 and 512

for acsessories i use small like 300 or less size texture.

most of my textures like wood or concrete are tiles

so for example.

actual render size is 2500*1770

i want to texture gobelen in wood panel. it`s not need to be in 1023*1024 because it`s less then 2 time small then render size.

so it can be 512 and tiled.

as i have some close up in scene, i make texture 1500. i can do it because i have not heavy geometry in scene. only wall and ceiling are heavy.

 

there are also some tricks with bitmap!!!

use instance bitmap, not copy. for example, for concrete wall, you can use one instanced texture for bump and diffuse!!! usualy it`s work very well.

if you want to have 2 different wood in one scene (they difference only in color) use color correct plugin. it alow change color for instanced texture.

[dagor]

about vegetation.

i use instance! it realy don`t take memory. i use instance everywere. for example square table. legs of the table will be instanced. take a look at picture i`ve attached in previous post. doors are instance, lamp parts are instance, ceiling cornices are instances! it`s save my memory alot!

 

for exterior tree i use vrayproxy and instance it )))

i very carefully so my model with exacly polycount i need. i`ll show it you some time later

[blowback]

I use instance, but not as much as I should. I will be more diligent. File managment and polycounts are important and I would love some tips. I have been using vray proxies but without the sound fundimentals (bitmap size, instances, vrimg...) I was overloading my computer so thanks. I am working on a condo tower right now that has a partial deadline friday. (a couple of elevations) I will post my progress.The photo composites will come next week. The other building I was asking about I have to finish this weekend,(monday deadline) if I crash...I will ask:D

[dagor]

some info about my model here

[nivvu]

does ur bitmap pager option is checked on.....????

if its not checked on .....while rendering ur max gets crash......

i too had the same problem and after i checked it on....my problem has got solved.....

 

c the image attached....

hope it helps u dude.....

 

cheers

nivas

[dagor]

yea, bitmap pager realy can help!!!

but not every time)) and it can slow down render, because working with hard drive is realy slowly than working with memory!

[nivvu]

u r rite dagor.....but wat i suggest is having a render complete even though it renders slowly is better than ceeing ur max and vray crashing every time...dont u think so................?????

 

cheers

nivas

[Zdravko Barisic]

Thanks,

 

I am a little worried because the past 2 renderings have given me this problem. I get close to the final render and I start crashing max. So cannot finish or set the final reneder to high quality settings.here is another one I have just worked on and I had the same crashing problem. my final solution was to render this out in small sections 6 @ 1000 X 600 and stich it together in ps. Not how i want to work..lol. the buildings and site trees are vr proxys and the mountain trees are 2d.

Sorry if something down is already talked about, but:

1. Do you use D3D as display driver for MAX?

2. Do you have SP2 on your MAX 9

3. Whats the average mem usage? Check task manager...

4. Do u use GROUPS frequently in your projects?

[dagor]

yea nivvu, you right! it`s just my comment for people. they can take all information from our posts

[dagor]

use GROUPS frequently in your projects. how does it affect on max stability?

[nivvu]

Groups doesnt effect max stability.....but people say tht making groups isnt compatible with vray..but until now i havent got any problem with vray in terms of making groups.....so its better to group the objects........

 

and even u can also try this tooo.....

 

xrerf all the objects in to a new max scene.....dont do xref scene....do xref objects .......with xrefscene u dont get materials into ur new scene.....with xref objects u get all the materials......this works very good......even the new max file size also gets reduced....making max to render it......

 

cheers

nivas

[dagor]

also it possible to render scene in backburner without loading max in memory ))) it save to you some memory.

 

there are alot of ways to reduce memory usage.

i prefer make my scene in order and optimisation from start of project, even think about why it not render when my deadline is tommorow ))

[blowback]

Thanks dagor, nivvu,okmijun,

 

 

All these tips are really helpful:) I now have some options as well as some more considerations when it come to memory. I know with time, my workflow and system recourse management will improve. It has been baptism by fire the past few renders:eek: but all your help is much appreciated

[blowback]

as for some of the tech specs,

 

I use both max 9 (home) and 9 sp2 (work)

I use open gl

I use groups

I didn't have bitmap pager checked......

I don't usuallu xref but I am gonna try it!

[nivvu]

all the best buddy!!!!!

 

cheers

nivas