living Room

[Sweet Architect]

Hello guys, this picture need your C&C, so you r welcomed:)

Also I have couple questions:confused:

1- what is the way to make this pic more realistic

2- how I can make the sun rays penetrate the window and appear inside the room, what kind of light I should use

 

 

Advanced thanks,

[dagor]

1. To make this pic more realistic, you need tweak material, light and geometry. try to add some reflection in shader.

2. Use vraySun light.

[Sweet Architect]

1. To make this pic more realistic, you need tweak material, light and geometry. try to add some reflection in shader.

2. Use vraySun light.

 

 

Hey Danil, thanks again for your reply , you are the only one who support my trials in this forum, i appreciate that;)

but again you put me at the corner, i feel embarrass, since i didn't understand what u told me to do in the first point

but about vray sun light, i will use it.

please be patient with me , how tweak material,and put reflection in shader, just give me an example and i will do my best to elevate my performance level, I'm a good student:cool:

 

advanced thanks,

take care

[dagor]

ok.

first of all make shure you use proper system unit. it`s very basic, but i want to know if you use it correct. customize>unit setup> system unit setup

i mean your model must be in real life scale.

 

Second, i think it will be to long, to say you what wrong with you image. So let`s go step by step and fix some key point. Other detail you can fix by youself. I think good lightining is one of important moment in 3d vis. Whats wrong with you light? I don`t fill light there. THere is now key light, there is no life in the room. Start with gray material override (because you material is realy off for me) and play with light. Use vray sun, use vray sky, use vray phisical camera and no more light. When you think you get good result with it - you can add one new type of light. I use real life unit for light like Lumenous power. You can finde info for lamp in internet.

When you fix lightining i`ll give you advice about material and geometry.

 

PS. did you use gamma different than 1 ?

[Sweet Architect]

Hello danil

i just read your reply, about the lights problem, i will try do it tomorrow at the office,, and override materials, i read about this some day before.

after i finish fix lighting i will send you the results.

oh, and about the scale, i use metric unit,and don't worry the scale i use real

thanks again for your help

[dagor]

share it at anytime you want. let it be long or short time - never mind it.

we`ll find the truth anyway ))

[Sweet Architect]

i afraid that it will be atough truth for me ,

that i should focous on my master thesis and forget about V-ray

but i would like to continue my trials, because i start from zero, and now ( i think) that i could be better

about your PS, i didn't understan so that because i didn't answer

thanks again, take care

[dagor]

there are gamma correction in max and vray.

by default gamma is 1

i use gamma 2.2

gamma is just a tool and nothing more. for me it`s useful, for someone else not.

[Tommy L]

Not sure about the office strip lighting in a living room...

[Sweet Architect]

Not sure about the office strip lighting in a living room...

 

 

Tommy, appreciate your note about strip lighting, what you suggest to use instead?....

[Sweet Architect]

this is the view after override it using gray material, the first view show the inner lights only((i have invisible Vray light on the ceiling,and the vray light material which used insted of the light source in spots and strip lights)), the second image is after i hide the glass window and add the Vray sun, with intensity/size multiplier=1

 

about physical camera:

f-no. =4

shutter speed= 25

film speed=250

 

PS. i noted that the vray light material at the first view seemed to not giveing any light!!

[dagor]

i think if you place light at their real place it will be more better.

don`t use lightmaterial now.

fist of all set up your daylight sceene:

sun+sky+phis.camera.

try to add light in skylight portal mode in window. but do it very accurate.

portal size must be exacly as you window holes size and placed there with snap.

no holes between portal ang geometry. no interaction portal and geomtry.

 

no coment about left one. there no hiden lamp in real life ))) we try to produce real lightining. if you can set up real light - you can fake it! unil you can`t do it - don`t try to fake it. just move simple step by step.

the right one is no coment too because there is hiden light. anyway it`s too dark for sunday.

[Sweet Architect]

i think if you place light at their real place it will be more better.

don`t use lightmaterial now.

fist of all set up your daylight sceene:

sun+sky+phis.camera.

try to add light in skylight portal mode in window. but do it very accurate.

portal size must be exacly as you window holes size and placed there with snap.

no holes between portal ang geometry. no interaction portal and geomtry.

 

no coment about left one. there no hiden lamp in real life ))) we try to produce real lightining. if you can set up real light - you can fake it! unil you can`t do it - don`t try to fake it. just move simple step by step.

the right one is no coment too because there is hiden light. anyway it`s too dark for sunday.

 

 

ok, i turned off all the fake vray lights, about the day light scene, i put already the sun+phis camera, about the skylight.... i went to lights icons then standered then skylight, with a mult.=1

 

about the skylight portal mode in window, that you mentioned, i didn't get what you mean , i usually put a Vray light(plane) infront of windows, but it's seemed that you mean another thing??!!

 

however, the Vray light infront of window i turned it off,because it is not real

light, i attached the view, that show the daylight scene only(the inner light hadn't been added yet ).

[Sweet Architect]

Danil, if i made you bored because of my trials, plz tell me and i will not send anything else, , but also i appreciate your help, take care

[dagor]

it`s ok. just keep testing it if you have time. it doesn`t take much time to give some advice.

can you show top viewport, i can`t understand shadows of shelfs on the wall. is there another window on the right wall?

also you can turn off viegnetting in camera setting. your image is dark at corners because of vignetting.

i don`t like sunlight overbrite, but its ok for now.

there is some trouble about gamma settings, but we can sorlve it ))

you use default gamma 1 and your image is to dark for me.

i use gamms 2.2 (also known as LWF or Linear workflow )and my images more bright but less contrast. so let it be as you doing.

 

check image i`ve attache about portal.

portal convert you indirect skylight from sky into direct skylight. it`s ok to put it in window. just try it!!! it gives you good shadows and bring your light into far part of room.

 

can you render image in 640x480?

for test render you can set lightcash subdives about 300-400

don`t touch irmap but set global subdives mult 0.5-0.7 and threshold about 0.03 in rQMC samplier rollout. it`s make render faster.

 

what version of vray do you use?

 

also you can make some test with different position of sun and camera settings. you need to feel your light. playaround with it and you will find what you like!

[Sweet Architect]

thanks for clearing your advice about "portal", after i saw the attched picture i get what you ment, sometimes we use a different words but we mean the same things , i call the portal >>>> Vray light-plane,

However,i will do exactly what you adviced, if God's well,

after i finished i will show you the results for more directions from you

thanks, take care

[dagor]

no, we talk about different things.

you talk about vraylight in window

i talk about vraylight in window with skylight portal mode on.

check thumbnail i`ve attached.

portal convert your indirect light into direct light. it works with sky, hdri, lightmaterial.

[Sweet Architect]

ahaaaaaaaaaaaaa, this option "skylight portal", i never use before

now i catch your point, thanks

today i will work on it,take care

 

PS. i use 3d max8, with V-ray 1.5

and there is another winow , so that the shelfs have shadow

[Sweet Architect]

Danil, i did my homework;)

first, i did the portal steps, second, i read tutorial talk about gamma settings, and also fix it as bellow:-

from settings preferences, checked enable gamma and set it to 2.2, input gamma=2.2 and leave output=1

clolor mapping, exponential,gamma=2.2

i switch to V-ray VFB instead of using max frame buffer,

but when i save the picture, should i override the gamma to 2.2 or just leave it as it is=1??

 

 

the first picture(left),all settings above,, it is look like washed up....why?

the second pic,all settings above,except i keep gamma in color mapping=1, but also if i press sRGB in the VFB,the result convert like the first picture.

 

so, what is the correct one, the first or the second???

[Sweet Architect]

i tried to render the view ,coloured view,

the first pic, without gamma correction,just edit the reflection of the floor and add texture to the wall, the second pic. with gamma previous settings

Strange:confused: , why the reflection of the floor disappear?

[dagor]

how to save image in LWF (gamma 2.2)

your gamma settings is correct.

you don`t need press sRGB button with this settings. only bad thing is your framebufer copy will be bright and incorrect so you cant compare actual framebufer and copy of framebufer.

if you save image in 8bit format - you have correct result.

i usualy save image in tiff 8bit. image is ok.

if you save image in 32bit like tiff32 or exr - you need correct gamma in ps because this format override gamma again )) and you have gamma 2.2 from max + gamma 2.2 from saving. correct your gamma in photoshop cs2 or cs3.

 

i don`t know wich of pictures is correct because i don`t know did you press sRGB for saving or what is your material. the correct render you can see with all gamma settings you did and dont push sRGB button in VFB.

 

for work with gamma your need fix your material!!!

you can`t use material from gamma 1 in gamma 2.2

it seams you don`t understand what gamma do with your scene.

gamma remove some of black color. check attachment.

for example you set 128 in your color for reflection in gamma 1. it`s ok

but when you swich to gamma 2.2 you gradient changes!!! and your 128 becom bright!!! this happens with all color in material!! you need to correct all colors. but your bitmap textures is ok because of your gamma settings in max!!

 

so i don`t know what to say about your color render. its wrong until you fix your material. how can you select colors for g2.2?? just select it in your taste by your sight. i mean there is no formula to convert old color to new but for example you want to make your wall green. just set you diffuse color to green )))) if you like your green color in material editor - you will like it on render!!! if you feel your green wall is bright or washed out - just correct your green color. make it dark and more saturated ))) you need only practice in it ) it`s realy easy.

 

i realy hate any discussion about gamma )))) i read alot of it in russain forum there is some thread in 100 pages and more )))) there is all shared setting people need but anyway some on newbie ask again "what is gamma" or "how it works" and all starts again )))))). i know it`s my own problem ))) just never minde it ))) your are the last man with whom i discuss gamma and LWF ))))

 

i think you need go step by step. it looks you don`t know exactly how to make render better and try change everything without any system and understanding what you doing. so the best way IMHO is chang something a little.

your set up day render in gray material - it looks ok. then you can add color on your scene. you can assign material only for room and tweak it until you like it. then you can add color material on other model. in final you can ajust light setting. i never change intensity on sun and sky but it`s not a rule. you can do what you want. for example if your sun light too bright and you have overbright of it you can

1 change color mapping type

2 decrease sun intensity

it`s all ok if your image become better.

 

your light set up looks strange. i understand what you did with portal. but there is some aditional light. i don`t know if they affect your scene. can your send me your scene? i`ll set up light and share it with you. i use max9 and your cant open my scene, but i share image and advice of it.

[Sweet Architect]

This is the picture, after i add texture to the walls and causions, and play with phusical camera settings, and the reflection of the floor.

the first pic, i kept gamma settings as default

the second pic. i changed gamma settings to 1.4, but without change it in color mapping.

actually i like the both result

which one of the two view , close to reality????

 

Ps. i used the vray sun, but the sun rays didn't appear the same way when i render the same view with override material(gray).... i attached it before...., even i use portals for both, the only different that in gary scene i hide the window glass so the sun rays can come in, what is the reason?

[dagor]

i think you have trouble in window with sun. may be glass material? did you set on affect shadow switche?

both image is not good for me. sorry.

i can`t feel light there is no shadow. it`s lok flat.

i`ll check your scene and try to finde what`s wrong.

 

ps. i think you on the right way with gamma.

it`s realy only tool and nothing more. you can use any gama settings you want!!

[dagor]

hey, you crush my minde with your scene )))

there are a lot of mistakes. fundamental mistakes!

your room model.

you use flat ceiling it`s wrong. just add thickness and make render.

your walls, ceiling, floor must have thickness.

i make quick fixing of room. you dont need weld all vertexes and cup all holes. i show you how i make my model. my models always work good for me.

i`v merged your geometry in my new scene, i`v fixed geometry and seted up light. sky sun + 5 portals in wondow. 1 portal per window. so my quick render with LWF (gamma 2.2)

 

you don`t have sky map in enviroment!

 

Ps. quick color test...

[Sweet Architect]

I don't know what to say, Woooow, a huge different between yours results and mine , about modeling i don't use max i do modiling using Revit buildings 9.1, i only render using max, i notice aslo that the floor,ceiling,walls, are flat, maybe when i import the file to max i did something wrong, however, i will find my mistakes and fix it

thanks for your support,take care

 

Ps. i really feel sad that u don't like the results, but also i know they are not good enough, but comparing with the first view i sent, i think i'm getting better ofcourse thanks for you, and i will keep trying until i will sutisfy your standerds