Derek Forreal Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 ---------------------------------------------------------------- SHORT TITLE FOR SUGGESTION/BUG/ENHANCEMENT REQUEST ---------------------------------------------------------------- CAD Modelling tools --------------------------------------------------------------- DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF YOUR REQUEST --------------------------------------------------------------- Simple CAD tools (should be 2nd nature for the company that makes Autocad). In order of importance (to me): 3 point rotate & 3 point scale Relative coordinates More (and 'smoother') snapping options (intersections etc) Inferencing While drawing, shift drag FULLY locks axis (currently only locks if desired side is shorter than locking side) Guide Lines Input Box (to type in sizes as you draw) The ability to change window/zoom/pan mid operation etc etc these tools are available (for example) for Lightworks (LWCAD) so i don't understand why they are not available for the most widely used modelling application of them all. if MAX had these, there would be no need for any other 3d software (maybe ) --------------------------------------------------------------- WHY THIS REQUEST IS IMPORTANT TO YOU --------------------------------------------------------------- when modelling from reference pics, max is great, but if reference files are not available, i find it difficult to judge things like scale etc without the above tools (input boxes etc). inferencing and good snapping not only speeds up modelling, but also makes it much more fun. i would like to be able to use max for all modelling but i find that cad apps are much easier/quicker to use for basic house modelling (floors/walls/roof). however, importing and editing cad models often presents problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Clementson Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Sorry but no, no, no! If you want CAD tools use a CAD application. 3dsmax doesn't need to be burdened with more tools that aren't necessary for the job it does - its NOT a CAD package. Just my opinion there, it sounds like you want max to be SketchUp - so why not use SketchUp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Forreal Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 well, that's a telling off if ever i've heard one... however, i have to disagree with you Matt. i don't think it would be a burden. surely something like a 3 point rotate wouldn't add that much overhead to the programming? (although i have finally found a workaround for that) i don't want to make max like sketchup (i don't even use it) and i don't expect a fully featured CAD application. i just think that several carefully chosen tools would make modelling (especially architectural modelling) much more intuitive and efficient. i love the flexibility that max offers plus it is the app that has most support for /dwg/rendering/objects/tutorials etc but i often find myself in a situation where i wish there was an easier way to line up to a certain vertex/edge (for example). in addition to this, there are MANY other tools that i don't use (characters, rigging etc) and it would also be great if these could be 'swithed off' to make room for the CAD tools. i'm relatively new to the 3d world so maybe i'm talking crap. i design and build my own small residential projects, so my needs are focussed more on modelling rather than integration with other softwares. if what i've said is nonsense, then feel free to delete my wish Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmaggia Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I think these functions must be in Autodesk Viz. They are only for an architectural use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Clementson Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 well, that's a telling off if ever i've heard one... Sorry - didn't mean to come off quite so harshly there - guess I'm having a bad day. Anyway, it's just my opinion and I'm pretty sure most users won't agree with me so there we have it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefferson Grigsby Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 instead of 3 point rotate, you can move transfrom center is max, or also use the align tool to align an object to coordinate system or object therein The only snap max is missing is the intersection, otherwise it functions just like Acad. "The ability to change window/zoom/pan mid operation" am I the only one that knows how to do this, been available since relase 4. try using the scroll wheel and set it to zoom about mouse point in your preferences, otherwise you can use a combination of I, [ and] to pan and zoom. Also, the numerical keypad can be used to to arc rotate around a model if you take the time to program it. "Relative coordinates"-have you even taken the time to explore all of the functionality of Max, or has an insecure CAD manager completely fooled you into thinking that Max is inept? "Input Box (to type in sizes as you draw)" hmm, isn't that the beauty of parametric modeling. i thought this was the whole premis of Max. Also,. ever try right clicking on the move, rotate, and scale transforms?? This is where you get your "type in" dialogues. Pretty nifty hey?. I shoot beer out of my nose everytime somebody tries to convince me that Max is not an accurate modeler. Not only is it as accurate, but it is far more fluid and faster than modelling in AutoCAD. I think it is more of a process issue than a functionality issue. You just have to learn to do things a tad bit diferent and kick the CAD Monkey off of your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Forreal Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 some of you guys are so defensive... i am just responding to a request made by this forum. this is what I would like to see in max, nothing more. instead of 3 point rotate, you can move transfrom center is max, or also use the align tool to align an object to coordinate system or object therein if you import a rotated object or if you draw a spline that is not aligned with the world axis, its pivot (even the local one) is not rotated with the object itself (pivot is aligned with world axis), so there is no way of aligning exactly to it. The only snap max is missing is the intersection, otherwise it functions just like Acad. intersection is what i have asked for. The ability to change window/zoom/pan mid operation" am I the only one that knows how to do this, been available since relase 4. try using the scroll wheel and set it to zoom about mouse point in your preferences, otherwise you can use a combination of I, [ and] to pan and zoom. Also, the numerical keypad can be used to to arc rotate around a model if you take the time to program it. no, you're not the only one who knows this. this method works but can be tedious (i said 'can be', not 'is'). also, try drawing a spline and changing from 'corner' to 'smooth' whilst drawing, or doing anything else. you must draw the spline first and then edit - for me this is inefficient. "Relative coordinates"-have you even taken the time to explore all of the functionality of Max, or has an insecure CAD manager completely fooled you into thinking that Max is inept? "Input Box (to type in sizes as you draw)" hmm, isn't that the beauty of parametric modeling. i thought this was the whole premis of Max. Also,. ever try right clicking on the move, rotate, and scale transforms?? This is where you get your "type in" dialogues. Pretty nifty hey?. no need to be rude. i am trying to learn as quick as i can. parametric modelling is something completely different but even then you have to draw something that you know will be the wrong size and then edit its size - you have to do it twice. i didn't mean this anyway. my example is to draw a spline (the outline of a house/a cupboard etc). can i input the length of each wall as i go? i don't think so. again, i have to draw a rough outline and then edit it. max works great if you have a reference image or a dwg guide, but if you start from scratch it can be tedious. I shoot beer out of my nose everytime somebody tries to convince me that Max is not an accurate modeler. Not only is it as accurate, but it is far more fluid and faster than modelling in AutoCAD. I think it is more of a process issue than a functionality issue. You just have to learn to do things a tad bit diferent and kick the CAD Monkey off of your back. i'm not trying to convince you of anything. i am just submitting my wish. i don't use autocad, i use archicad. as far as 3d is concerned, these tools are available in FormZ, LWCAD, SketchUp, Rhino and now even modo. and before you say it, no, i do not want to buy any of these apps. i have invested time and money in max and i feel that i shouldn't need other apps (although i am tempted by formZ) - i just wish Max had better CAD functionality (hence my post) thanks for reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-csab Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I have to protect you Derek. People, I don't understand you. You've read such wishes here, that would make the 3dsmax to be a more user friendly software. Also I'm doing arhviz, and Derek's list forms my opinion too, those are the features I'm really missing. Those a few improvements would make the workflow much easier, and more effective. And finally: the solutions you've mentioned are ok, but there could be a much more easier way for each of them. Max's editing functions takes 2-3× more energy, as normally should be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Twyman Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I definitely agree with the idea of having more control when creating splines. Being able to specify a length (maybe angle too) or switching between initial and drag types during creation would be a real benefit. I certainly wouldn't want it to be all input based but having the option for when it is needed would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGentile Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 If you want CAD tools use a CAD application. we often customize max to do whatever the artist needs through custom scripts. an example is our multiple instance script. we select an object...say a tree...then simply click and it places a tree. a very handy tool when placing landscape or cars, yet it derived from Cadd. we take the best/most helpful features from what ever package and customize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Eloy Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 intersection is what i have asked for. Amem. no, you're not the only one who knows this. this method works but can be tedious (i said 'can be', not 'is'). also, try drawing a spline and changing from 'corner' to 'smooth' whilst drawing, or doing anything else. you must draw the spline first and then edit - for me this is inefficient. (...) no need to be rude. i am trying to learn as quick as i can. parametric modelling is something completely different but even then you have to draw something that you know will be the wrong size and then edit its size - you have to do it twice. i didn't mean this anyway. my example is to draw a spline (the outline of a house/a cupboard etc). can i input the length of each wall as i go? i don't think so. again, i have to draw a rough outline and then edit it. max works great if you have a reference image or a dwg guide, but if you start from scratch it can be tedious. Actually, you can draw just like you would in AutoCAD, using the keyboard entry area of the create tab. The thing is that drawing something with coordinates is really tedious, and if you think that our job is (normally) to bring some existing design to life, I really don't see why I would need Max to draw the same way as ACAD. After more than a decade using 3d studio, I really think there's no need for a complex CAD modeling feature whatsoever. And, depending on the way you model your stuff, CAD is almost useless. I do all my stuff in Max using box modeling and never missed AutoCAD for that. I started modeling in AutoCAD and when I migrated to Max I started wondering why ACAD wasn't more like Max (now there are more tools like Max's, but still not the same). Anyway, this is a wishlist, and if you would like to see more of CAD in Max, that's fair. But, from my side, only some minor things are to be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Twyman Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I would just like to see some options available during spline creation. Maybe in the shift right click quad menu allowing you to change creation method once you have started (not sure if this is mathmatically possible during creation? perhaps thats why it hasn't already been added) and maybe the ability to add a distance in XYZ from last point created. Although you can create a spline completely using the keyboard entry you cannot add a distance once you have started to create one by hand. I just think it would be a nice little feature that could improve workflow sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Burns Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Great post Derek I totally agree with you. I use Microstation for modelling and it's amazing and really fast because you have all these tools and more. How could it be a problem to have a tool like accudraw in Max? People saying that it would be a burden on Max as a visualisation program. In my line of work which is Architecture you need a lot of precision in your modeling its not all about how good it looks. Yes you can use other programs to model but who needs the burden of referencing, file linking (which has a mind of its own at times),merging, importing, exporting, scaling etc. All of this in my opinion could be erased if we could all just model in Max, completely saving countless amount of hours. I would love to do all my modeling in max but the only thing that stops me is the tools that Derek has asked for. How difficult would it be to put in these tools ie. place a line with distance, copy something from a reference point that is not included in the object you are copying?? input a distance that you want the object copied/moved too. I am sure that people have all got their own way of doing all this but wouldn't it be nice if they brought out a set of tools that we all could use the same way and if there are people out there who think they are a burden to Max? just turn them off. Theres no doubt about it that max has other tools which are far ahead of other programs so why not have the real basic ones I don't understand this at all. This is why this would be on the top of my wishlist which would leave me with a hell of a lot more time to check out all the fancy tools that max has. Once again great post and fingers crossed hey!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-csab Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 ...copy something from a reference point that is not included in the object you are copying... You can copy that way. Just press spacebat to lock selection, and you can move/copy from an external point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Burns Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 What a quality tip you don't know how easier thats gonna make my life Cheers Ben!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Forreal Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 hi All, good to see some some support for my request. i have been thinking of ways to make the cad tools as 'invisible' as possible. here are some suggestions: 3 point rotate & 3 point scale - these could be incorporated in the current rotate and scale icons. the existing scale icon, for example, provides access to three different tools. it should be simple and invisible to add a fourth. similarly, an extra function could be added to the rotate icon . Relative coordinates - an option within the preferences could be made to switch between absolute and relative input. this could then be mapped to keyboard More (and 'smoother') snapping options (intersections etc) - simply add to current snaps Inferencing & Guide Lines - additional icons in snap toolbar, mappable to keyboard to allow switching on and off Shift drag FULLY locks axis (currently only locks if desired side is shorter than locking side) - Again, could be switched on and off from preferences dialogue. Better still, preferences dialogue could include 'Architecture Tools' tab where all 'accuracy' tools can be controlled Input Box (to type in sizes as you draw) - see 'relative coordinates' above The ability to change window/zoom/pan mid operation - this should be standard. in addition to this i would like to be able to create primitives in multiple windows - example, create a box. specify length and width in 'top' view, then change to 'right' view to specify bottom and top of box. maybe i should make a seperate wish for this... finally, a tip i picked up in the autodesk 'area' forum. if you need to align an object or a pivot exactly to another object and don't know the angle of rotation - use the 'tape measure' tool in 3d and 3d snap the tape to pretty much anything you want (spline, any edge of an object etc). now you can use the tape's pivot to align to, or you can pick the tape's pivot to move an object along that axis. great for roof tiles etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dwannab Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 polyspline v3 download from the scriptspot website... Thank you please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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