Mixed Use Animaiton Log

[Tommy L]

Then thats a tough task! I never tried modeling an accurate person, but from the models Ive seen by people who are inexperienced at character modeling.....they always look way off.

[Brian Cassil]

Yeah, I've always figured character modeling was either something you specialize in and do all the time or you don't do it at all. I definetly fall into the latter category, which is why I'm looking to either have it scanned somehow or hire someone to do it.

[Nils Norgren]

Hey Brian,

 

I like this thread, I am sorry I didn't see it back in Nov. when you started it. One quick thought about the 3d digitizing, things may be much better now, but back in the old days point cloud meshes from laser scanning were so unruly, un-necessarily dense, difficult to open and almost impossible to optimize that hand modeling would almost always be preferable. I think that building a Low-poly model of the people and photo-mapping them should hold up on everything except a close up shot.

 

On to the whole arc of the project, our previous posts about "plot devices" not withstanding, I would still maintain that some formal planning (which has probably happened) should be considered. Who is the audience? Under what circumstances will they watch the movie? controlled, like a public presentation, or uncontrolled, like a movie on a website, or all of the above. What is the hope for what people will take away from watching the movie? Is it informational?, IE, "now I understand how the open space fits with the streets, or what the buildings will look like" or is it an emotional response "wow I can't wait until all that cool stuff will be right here in our neighborhood". After some of these questions I would sugesst writing a treatment, just a textural description of the movie, with some details when necessary.

 

You mentioned a few specific spaces, obviously planning the shots and building only what you need for those shots will help make decisions about how detailed various models need to be. When planning what shots and where cameras may go, you can start to think of compositing strategy, If a shot inside a restaurant needs to see the street out the window, does the street need to be rendered in the shot (requiring exterior lighting) or can it be integrated in post (allowing for interior and exterior shots rendered separately) skies often benefit from being rendered as a pass.

 

I hope that the project is going well, as I said I am sure you have all these on your mind as you have progressed, I think that listing some of these things will help people better measure progress and success in the end. You mentioned that the movie needed to "Knock their socks off" I sure that it will, with a goal like that there is always the danger of getting bogged down in the details when the 30,000 ft view is not totally clear.

 

Hope things are going well,

 

-Nils

 

PS. as for music, I fall on both sides of the argument, we have had good and bad experiences with composers, and we have had some luck with finding tracks on Killer Tracks that we have purchased (not too expensive). The best is when we license real music and have it re-mixed.

[Ernest Burden III]

For the figures I'd get good reference photos and hire a modeler who does good figures. You could look on CGtalk, there's so many there to meet. It could be a good Zbrush project. A more simple method would be to model from the photos to produce an angular approximation of the sculptures.

 

The structure would be a good candidate for modeling from photos, as well.

[Brian Cassil]

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to add the tremendous insight Nils. Much appreciated.

 

Right now I'm not sure how close the statues will come into view, but I imagine at some point they will come within at least 20 ft of the camera. It is situated directly across from the most prominent corner of the project so there is no getting around it. Besides that it's something that the community would really dig seeing in there. I'll keep your comments on 3D scanning (and Ernest's suggestions on getting someone to model) in mind as I decide how to approach it.

 

Your presentation at the first DMVC is pretty much what I have stirring in my head as far as how I approach this, so thanks again for that as well. Writing a textural description of the movie is something I hadn't considered but sounds like a great idea. At the very least it's something I could use to explain to the big bosses what I'm shooting for because I'm sure they have little idea at this point.

 

Here's a prioritized list of purposes for this movie:

 

1. To be used as a part of a larger presentation in marketing our architecture firm.

 

2. To be used by our client on this project to procure tenants.

 

3. To be shown to the community and local government leaders to gain support.

 

Based on those things I would say it falls more into the "emotional" category you described. As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, this neighborhood (which our office happens to be located in) has a unique culture to it (I'll take some time to try and describe it later) and is one of the few truly walkable areas in Salt Lake so I would like to play that up somehow. Some would say that this project is actually destroying those values so this could be a means of mitigating those reactions.

[Nils Norgren]

Writing a textural description of the movie is something I hadn't considered but sounds like a great idea. At the very least it's something I could use to explain to the big bosses what I'm shooting for because I'm sure they have little idea at this point.

 

When pitching the internal concept it is preferable to stake a claim (depending on politics) on what the concept is and how the approach supports it. Be careful not to allow too many cooks. The treatment document can have information about what the actual view is, or what the camera is doing, whatever qualities support the overall goal. This is very helpful as it will set a production path and everyone will be working to the same goal, and it will (hopefully) limit the amount of starting over when a higher-up wants to "slightly" change something. Stand your ground about what the movie is and what it is not. Try to avoid the "Bullet list" of items in the movie, clients often come to us with a list of features / amenities, we try to get them to agree to play to the strength of the movie, use other media (Web pages, brochures, plan cut sheets, etc) for the other information, don't overburden the movie with too much stuff. This is another by product of a good treatment.

 

 

1. To be used as a part of a larger presentation in marketing our architecture firm.

 

For this purpose I would consider making a separate cut of the movie, the music and cuts can be snappier, people looking at it from this standpoint only need to see the coolest parts, presented in a cool way. Long drawn out moves, all going the same speed can bore an audience with no interest in the subject matter.

 

2. To be used by our client on this project to procure tenants.

 

When using the movie for this purpose it is important to play up the neibhorhood, you need to cater to outsiders who may or may not be familiar to the area. They don't need to be won over about the merits of the project like a naive does, but they need to be intrested in the qualities of the place from their point of view. Think about a layperson with no architectural vocabulary at all and what would grab them to help them get to the next step of the sales cycle.

 

3. To be shown to the community and local government leaders to gain support.

 

This is much different from above, these viewers don't want to be sold anything (they don't want the faintest whiff of marketing), they want a movie that caters to their issues. It may be a matter of showing some of what is there currently in a less than flattering light and then showing the new project with all it's wonderful new retail and neighborhood appropriate open spaces. It sounds like capturing the "Culture" of the area is very important, I would be sure to try to put that in the treatment and look for ways to reinforce it.

 

Hope any of this helps,

 

-Nils

[Ernest Burden III]

Nice post, Nils! Thanks!

[Sawyer]

Brian are your items objectives of your movie or justification for the movie?

[Brian Cassil]

Epic post Nils! I like your advice on a few different cuts of the movie for the different audiences. I will have to think about how I approach actually doing three different cuts of this now. I imagine that some of the shots could be used for all three but some of them wouldn't and I might need different content for the thrird. Based on your advice that might end up getting cut out and our presentation to the city and public would be mostly stills.

 

Brian are your items objectives of your movie or justification for the movie?

 

Very percieving question. The first is the only true objective. The others are justification I suppose. Originally when I started on this we were going to be doing it completely on our dime. Now the client is kicking in some money (not enough to cover the whole thing, but some) so they will want it for their purposes as well. So I guess #2 (hehe) is a secondary objective. I actually kind of wish they would have just stayed our so we could have done everything according to our own whim. Oh well.

[Tommy L]

Have you started doing a storyboard?

[Brian Cassil]

Have you started doing a storyboard?

 

Next week. I wanted to have the massing done first. Actually that has been done for some time, but we've been swamped with other work so this has had to go on the back burner until now. Demolition is going on right now and there are some scheduled meetings set so we will be working on it diligently for the next while, although it will be mostly toward getting some stills done, with the animation in mind.

[Brian Cassil]

I've been working on modeling the office building which sits on the corner of two busy streets right across from the monument. Here are a couple images of that. The modeling process is always a part of the design process so changes along the way are just part of how we do things here. There are some changes I will continue to make to this untill everyone is happy.

[blowback]

That looks really good. It look modern, but has a classic sensibility to it. Not sure.....but I like the building. Looking forward to the next post

[Tommy L]

Looks very crisp. Nice AA.

[alias_marks]

really enjoyed reading through some of the insightful comments so far. Our firm is actually in the midst of a very similar project and I'll enjoy watching to see how our two projects compare. Our porject is actually a small new urbanism residential/retail project in Steamboat, CO, not to different from your program.

 

We're really looking at taking the emotional response as opposed to the communicative detail, mostly because I think it will be a lot more interesting for our 3d team and allows us to push the limits of our capabilities.

 

A quote I copied from one of Nils's posts about their demo reel a while back I think wraps it up pretty well - "It does resemble one (a movie trailer), we purposefully made it short and dynamic, we tell our clients that making a film (like this) should be a way to get people's attention. If you want to get information about where the kitchen is in relation to the entrance, then show them renderings and a plan. If you want to grab their attention, don't give away too much. This demo attempts to do the same, not too much information but just enough to get someone interested.

 

I like to think that there is a difference between storytelling and documentation, a storyteller often intentionally leaves out information, only to reveal it later, or withhold it to let the viewer interpret it for themselves."

 

Great comments Nils and things that I've been thinking about for our project for some time too. I find that's it's extremely important to try and keep focused on the larger picture and not get caught up in mundane details the client (and our architects) request quite often.

 

We've been working on the project for about a month so far and I would definitely say stick to your guns and don't let the client or designers try to add too much. Like Nils said, too many cooks in the kitchen is trouble. Work with them and communicate with them why it's almost more important not to include things, and educate them on how the product can be just as successful without including all the minute details. In the end, it's funny how they actually end up respecting those decisions and agree.

 

Good luck,

 

Michael

[Brian Cassil]

The design has been progressing steadily. I've been supporting the designers with some modeling and did some images for a steering committee. Just some rendered elevations for now, but I thought I would post them as an update. Everything is subject to change but so far everyone really likes what we're doing.

[Brian Cassil]

Here are some no frills 3D views. A couple of these will turn into finished renderings.

[gfa2]

Really nice. I especially like the brick. I'm sure if I looked really close I could find the repeating pattern, but it doesn't jump out at you, which always kills brick really quick.

 

This is going to be a really nice project. Thanks for sharing.

[Chad Warner]

For no Frills, its damn nice! The building reminds me of The Larkin Building:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gsapp/BT/EEI/MASONRY/39larkin.jpg

[blowback]

It look great. I really like watching the progression of this project.

[Brian Cassil]

The building reminds me of The Larkin Building/quote]

 

Almost all of the architects who have wandered around my area who aren't involved in this project say the words Louis and Sullivan within the first 10 seconds of looking at it. Of course Sullivan was Wright's mentor. Although there is only one Wright design built in all of Utah, this neighborhood has a lot of prarie influenced homes and other buildings so the Sullivan/Wright comparisons are a good thing I think.

[Justin Hunt]

Very cool, I am sure you have measured but the lamp post look too chunky.

 

I am really looking forward to seeing the finished product.

 

JHV

[CarlAhearne]

Just stumbled across this thread, and it looks like there is some really good work going on here. Nils provided some really good insights into how one may approach a project like this; maybe we should start a thread about how people typically complete a project like this; storyboarding, camera angles, music, compositing etc and share some of this great knowledge that the board has...

 

Anyway, back to the original poster, Brian, some great work and I look forward to seeing where this goes...

[Inxa]

Nice thread.

Very very informative.

 

Sorry to drop in late, Brian.

Like the last renders you have posted.

 

Bookmarked to be read again and again.

Very useful for people / studios like me who are planning to grow and provide animations on a larger scale.

 

Thanks NilsN. Great replies.

[Brian Cassil]

So it's been a long time since I've posted anything on this thread. The projects has been through the ringers and has been embroiled in more politiacal mumbo jumbo than I've ever seen on a project. Anyway, the animation has pretty much been but on the back burner indefinetly. I really want to an animation of some sort still, even if its a very short one of the exterior only but if I do it will probably have to be on our own time. I might be able to milk a little time out of our marketing budget but I'm not sure about that yet.

 

Here are some updated images that are pretty close to being finalized both in terms of the building design and the illustration.