Legal question? My client wants the model and files.

[innerdream]

Hey all,

 

My client wants me to give them the model and all the furniture, jpegs etc. so they can make changes at a future date. First I normally would not do this because the amount of labor to produce it wasn't covered by the render fees. But...they are such a pain in the ass i just want them gone for good.

 

My question is, I have bought furniture from online shops do I have the right to now give that to a thrid party?

[Limbus]

Hey all,

 

My client wants me to give them the model and all the furniture, jpegs etc. so they can make changes at a future date. First I normally would not do this because the amount of labor to produce it wasn't covered by the render fees. But...they are such a pain in the ass i just want them gone for good.

 

Charge them for the models. If you charge enough, he will surely go away and never come back.

 

My question is, I have bought furniture from online shops do I have the right to now give that to a thrid party?

Probably not but you could tell your client where he can buys these models.

 

Florian

[notamondayfan]

could there be issues with selling your model, and bought models? many 3d models and textures will have restrictions on them, and so if you sell them, you could be breaking the law.

 

but as said above, charge loads, you cant lose haha!

[Brian Cassil]

There is no way that whoever you bought the furniture from would be OK with you sharing that with others. So even if you charged them for your model (which is a very good idea, and I wouldn't charge any small amount either) you couldn't give them the models that you bought.

[Trevor Tizard]

My guess is you will have to remove all of the objects and bitmaps that you have purchased as you will not be able to pass these on. Much the same as you can't copy a music CD and give it to a friend.

 

Personally I would offer him a scene with no materials, no third party models, treble the price of the renders and see what he says.

 

However, if you want repeat work you may wanna negotiate the price, but you still can't give him the models and textures.

 

Edit: in the time it took for me to type this, two more replies!

[STRAT]

talk to your client. explain things to him. communication. thats the key. if you have good communication you'll have no problems.

[Sawyer]

And keep in mind this would not be like making a copy of a CD for a friend it would be making a copy and selling it to a client. Very different.

[innerdream]

Hi and thanks.

 

I'd say I have about a hundred hours in the modeling, I have no idea what to ask for? Should I just multiply my hourly x 100?

[innerdream]

And keep in mind this would not be like making a copy of a CD for a friend it would be making a copy and selling it to a client. Very different.

 

This is true. You are allowed to make a "reasonable" amount of copies of a CD for friends and family under fair use laws in the US. I doubt the same applies for this case.

[Trevor Tizard]

This is true. You are allowed to make a "reasonable" amount of copies of a CD for friends and family under fair use laws in the US. I doubt the same applies for this case.

 

 

Really................I'm suprised at this. Pretty sure you can't in the UK.

[innerdream]

Really................I'm suprised at this. Pretty sure you can't in the UK.

 

The laws are interesting for music in the US. My other job is running a indie record label.

 

http://www.innerdreamrecords.com

[louis.cho]

hourly x 100...

 

that just depend on what do you think your model and work count for. so if you work at 20$/h x 100=2000$/h, if you took 100h to do it you'll sell it for 200 000$ I think it's a s*** load of money! but hey...if he want to pay

 

what kind of scene it is? simple interior or complete commercial building?

[Sawyer]

This is true. You are allowed to make a "reasonable" amount of copies of a CD for friends and family under fair use laws in the US. I doubt the same applies for this case.

 

Thats not the point I was trying to make. If you give something to a friend you aren't profiting from it.

[innerdream]

Thats not the point I was trying to make. If you give something to a friend you aren't profiting from it.

 

True. But, intellectual property has laws that govern what you can and can't do with it. Or at least that's what I'm told! You would never know now...

[innerdream]

hourly x 100...

 

that just depend on what do you think your model and work count for. so if you work at 20$/h x 100=2000$/h, if you took 100h to do it you'll sell it for 200 000$ I think it's a s*** load of money! but hey...if he want to pay

 

what kind of scene it is? simple interior or complete commercial building?

 

It's a complicated interior.

[notamondayfan]

and how much stuff inside the scene is bought, ie textures and models?

[innerdream]

and how much stuff inside the scene is bought, ie textures and models?

 

Just a few items but they are key to the space. As mentioned they could purchase the items themselves.

[Jeff Mottle]

I think 3x the cost of what you would charge for a rendering of this project would be a decent amount for selling the model. I've heard this 3x number thrown around a fair bit.

 

Most companies just refuse to provide their models for any cost however. Due to loss of IP. If they do end up doing it. The mesh is collapsed, the textures, lighting, cameras, and 3rd party models are all removed.

 

If you do sell it to him and you are looking to get rid of him for good, I think asking 10-12K ought to do the trick. The problem with providing them the models, even if you purchased them a license, would be that they would breach the contract by providing those models to whomever they hire next to work on that model.

 

I recently passed off my last client I had from my production days. The last round of changes, the price was increase to $175/hour. They quickly finished up and they hired someone else.

[innerdream]

I think 3x the cost of what you would charge for a rendering of this project would be a decent amount for selling the model. I've heard this 3x number thrown around a fair bit.

 

Most companies just refuse to provide their models for any cost however. Due to loss of IP. If they do end up doing it. The mesh is collapsed, the textures, lighting, cameras, and 3rd party models are all removed.

 

If you do sell it to him and you are looking to get rid of him for good, I think asking 10-12K ought to do the trick. The problem with providing them the models, even if you purchased them a license, would be that they would breach the contract by providing those models to whomever they hire next to work on that model.

 

I recently passed off my last client I had from my production days. The last round of changes, the price was increase to $175/hour. They quickly finished up and they hired someone else.

 

Now you're talking...10 to 12k should do it!

 

It's funny I read this great article on firing your worst clients because the return just isn't worth the effort on many levels. I subscribe to this 100%.

 

They want to do many more renders "in house" I'm sure. They have a guy who is okay so this would help him to have the model.

[ronll]

You said the clients want you to GIVE them the model? I definitely wouldn't give it OR sell it to them. The term I use in my contract is, "Instruments of Service". I sell the service, not the tools used to provide it.

 

Can you imagine asking your dentist to give you or sell you his drills so you can fix your own teeth next time?

 

If you sell them the model, then you have just demoted yourself from renderer to modeler.

[innerdream]

You said the clients want you to GIVE them the model? I definitely wouldn't give it OR sell it to them. The term I use in my contract is, "Instruments of Service". I sell the service, not the tools used to provide it.

 

Can you imagine asking your dentist to give you or sell you his drills so you can fix your own teeth next time?

 

If you sell them the model, then you have just demoted yourself from renderer to modeler.

 

Well, I don't see it as a step down the ladder. It's a business, I'll never work for them again so if they want the model why not sell it and make more profit?

 

I really don't think they'll cough up the cash anyhow, the cheap so and so's.

[Tommy L]

A simple way of dicouraging him, would be to download some really obscure 3d software, export your mesh, import it into the new 'weird' software, export it again in the most uncommon format you can find with as many free plugins and scripts you can get your hands on applied to it, slice the hell out if it, collapse the mesh, re-export as something else, subdivide to 1 cm, save, put it on a zip disk formatted for an old operating system and charge him 500 dollars. He'll think he's getting a bargain but it will take him 5 years to decipher the file. Tell him you always work like that, its your favourite method and he "will never understand the complex world of 3d rendering"

Screw him, because he's trying to screw you.

HA!

[innerdream]

A simple way of dicouraging him, would be to download some really obscure 3d software, export your mesh, import it into the new 'weird' software, export it again in the most uncommon format you can find with as many free plugins and scripts you can get your hands on applied to it, slice the hell out if it, collapse the mesh, re-export as something else, subdivide to 1 cm, save, put it on a zip disk formatted for an old operating system and charge him 500 dollars. He'll think he's getting a bargain but it will take him 5 years to decipher the file. Tell him you always work like that, its your favourite method and he "will never understand the complex world of 3d rendering"

Screw him, because he's trying to screw you.

HA!

 

I love this! They thought they were entitled to the model for some reason.

[Justin Hunt]

The only time I share a model is if its for further analysis, eg wind testing. Other than that no. There are too many issues with IP and Copyright.

 

If you do decide to sell the model be sure to put in a contract limiting their use of the model, ie they cant on sell it or give it to any one else. Dont give the bought textures, and the ones you created yourself add the time onto the cost. Also make sure that its clear that you are allowed to reuse the model in the future. They do not own the rights to it. If the model is used and publisd that you are credited for the model.

 

JHV

[Sawyer]

Or another way to look at it is to remove everything that you cannot legally sell. Tell them to never ask for this again but you are ok with it this once and pick a piece of software you want to buy and price it at that. Get zbrush or a tutorial. Take a class or even get a PS3. Price it at something that makes it worthwhile and "fire" them. Also make sure you have the money before you hand over the models because I imagine they wont need you either after this.