CGpeople, unite !

[alexandre]

Hello boys&girls (well, hopefully one day),

 

What with CGarchitect expanding so fast and all the polls showing that basically we are the same people doing practically the same thing all over this tiny planet, it crossed my mind that we might have a union of some sort, or maybe an association that could then get some sponsorship and organize get togethers and shows or international competitions...

Jeff, you could be president for life !

 

Well, it was just a thought - but if you're interested we could talk it over (mind you, if ever this gig gets on the road I want to be cashier !)

 

rgds,

 

alexandre

[Lanni]

alexandre, your idea sounds great! An association though, not a union. But I'm not sure how we could go about putting one together, hopefully someone does.

[alexandre]

hi lanni,

 

i knew i would hit a chord somewhere

 

i think we should wait for jeff to give his opinion because honestly i would never have come up with this idea were it not for his website, but why could we not just register this association in Canada or the US, it should be lots easier than in Europe ? I mean, we've all seen on tv that bald people, overweight people, small people and twins have their associations, why couldn't CGpeople have theirs?

[Jeff Mottle]

Hey alexandre,

 

I like your idea, and it sounds very interesting. Although I would agree with Lanni; an association not a union. Not really into being the next Jimmy Hoffa.

 

Check this out http://www.asai.ws/ I think it may have already been done. If you puruse the site, you will find other associations and societies throughout the world.

 

Did you have something else in mind?

[alexandre]

hi jeff,

 

i was waiting for you to react and you were prompt and pertinent as usual;

 

yes, I have something else in mind !

 

did you notice that asai has only 4 corporate members ? (neoscape is one of them and axyz canada another), only 23 people from NY (none of them visits this site), nobody from belgium, wales or france ( hello strat , nisus, quizzy )?

 

their competitions are SOOO formal (the recipient of the FORMAL PRIZE depicted PLINY'S VILLA for God's sake !) and they do not seem to entertain much activity around their site.

 

yes, i was thinking about an association (or society if you prefer) as lively and alive as this site, and as useful.

 

many times the topics and the polls went around to the same questions: who are we, why are we doing this etc. and each time we found out that we're alike, that we enjoy what we do (with our ups-and-downs) and that we finally feel we belong to a community: the CGArch community.

 

we are not a lost generation of would-be-architects turned cg-artists, we are the transition, the pioneers who invent each day what architectural visualisation professionnals will do tomorrow when they'll graduate from school.

 

we definitely should have a common voice

 

what do you think?

[Lanni]

Jeff, this really hasn't been professionally done before, ASAI isn't strictly CG actually it's alot more of hand illustrations. So I think a CGarchitect association would be the perfect step for uniting our talents, experiences, problems, etc... to help further this industry and improve our quality and techniques worldwide. Also it would be perfect for students to help them learn beyond the limits of their instructors (I had that problem) I think this is something we should seriously persue, I know many will give their all to make it the best it can be, including me.

 

[ July 04, 2002, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Lanni ]

[DelfoZ]

I agree,

Alexadre say [ did you notice that asai has only 4 corporate members ? (neoscape is one of them and axyz canada another), only 23 people from NY (none of them visits this site), nobody from belgium, wales or france ( hello strat , nisus, quizzy )? ]

and mexico here.

[Cesar R]

I think its a great idea, althoug I probably one of the youngsterts of the group, I say let's go for it. BTW when I get out of college I want to be "architectural visualisation professionnal", or an architectural visalisaser ?. anyway. you get the point, I love GC, so let's do it.

[Cesar R]

I think its a great idea, althoug I probably one of the youngsterts of the group, I say let's go for it. BTW when I get out of college I want to be "architectural visualisation professionnal", or an architectural visalisaser ?. anyway. you get the point, I love GC, so let's do it.

[alexandre]

hi guys (please note i dropped the boys&girls-stuff, i feel pessimistic today about the chances our androgyne society will ever be refreshed by a feminine touch but, hey, so they said about soccer)

 

i would have expected a rather large debate over this topic but, maybe typically, except for the americas nobody reacted.

 

now, maybe this comes from the well-rooted belief that nothing that comes from france is much good (well, except from foie-gras, bordeaux wines and champagne) so i'll pass the idea to someone else, maybe then it'll have its chance of getting on the rails !

 

in the meantime i still think it's a good idea

 

rgds,

 

alexandre

[Jeff Mottle]

Hey Alexandre,

 

I still think it's good idea and I'm looking into it now. I'll let you know what I find out early next week. And yes your are probably correct that nobody replied due the the July 4th long weekend in the US. Or, perhaps there was no debate because there is nothing to debate. I don't think the concept of creating a society is really the issue, but the manpower, time and work required to ensure that something like this can succeed and stay successful. If the idea doe progress beyond a simple discussion, there is no doubt that many people's very hard and dedicated work would be required to pull this off.

[alexandre]

hi jeff,

 

thanks for the reply, i have no doubt you'll be thorough looking this up but on the other hand don't get alarmed: i've seen associations being created that didn't have the wonderful basis you built for cgarchitect - i'm sure that without many corrections the very structure and philosophy of this site are an optimal starting point.

 

have a nice weekend

 

alexandre

[Lanni]

I'm more than willing to help see this through.

[CHE]

Jeff said: perhaps there was no debate because there is nothing to debate. I don't think the concept of creating a society is really the issue, but the manpower, time and work required to ensure that something like this can succeed and stay successful. If the idea doe progress beyond a simple discussion, there is no doubt that many people's very hard and dedicated work would be required to pull this off.

 

Y'all know I'm on it. I think that's going to be a little bit hard to get it to start, but hey, it's a great idea and I'm willing to help out.

[nisus]

Hi all,

 

I might sound very European on this but why do we need an association? What could it give us more, than this site does already? What extra do we need/want? Don't we already have what we want: a cg-community?

 

rgds

 

nisus

(the rebel, in search of extending the debate)

[Lanni]

Well nisus there are a ton of reasons why. (in no particular order) One: we could hold events where we could all meet and greet eachother, talk about the industry, hold competitions, showcase our work, etc... and party Two: We could get a bunch of sponsers and have many great prizes for winners of contests. Three: We would get professionally reconigzed and have many job oppertunities come to us. Four: It would be a get place for students to learn. Five: Why not do it? Why stand still when we could be moving forward to make the industry even greater and bigger than it already is? It seems like a step in the right direction to me.

[nisus]

Hi lanni,

 

a quick respone:

1: don't we already have this on cga? irl meeting won't take too long imho. Besides I don't think an association is a condition to meet.

2: is an association necessary? can't we do the same without?

3: I don't believe this, really. How would you give a task to anyone? who desides? who would eventually do the job?

4: don't we have this already on cga?

5: I don't think cga is standing still. Jeff updated the forums, many new artists subscribed, moderators try helping jeff, got a mirc channel...

 

rgds

 

nisus

[Lanni]

hi nisus,

 

reponse to your response:

1. no we don't have this on cga, through meeting and socializing (face to face) great things come from it.

2. We could do this with an association, but through an association it would be professionally reconigzed, not only in the cg industry but in the eyes on any industry associated with cg.

3. It's to be an association not a union. Jobs won't be regulated but offered or listed. And those meeting the criteria and location would apply to these listing. We won't be take jobs as a whole, rather companies would post job listings and those interested would apply.

4. Yes, but again not professionally.

5. You need to look outside the box, take a step back and look at it in a broader view. I never said the site is standing still, this site is great. But it is standing in one spot, "through expansion to help further things not only do you need to grow in one spot but you also need to create and grow in new spots."

[DelfoZ]

ok, lets make a magazine , with Interview ( not the same Interview in cgarchitect.com, jobs, pages, etc etc . with another nice stuff, not the same stuff that the page ... Tips techniques, and a yellow page of Cgarchitects . maybe some contact us .. ( if I or u r in that yellowpage r becouse u r good and the client get ur work ) .. i dont know, just an idea, good or bad, just an idea.... maybe ( this month spanish CG studios, or Germany CG firms,, etc )

[Jeff Mottle]

Hey Nisus,

 

I do agree with you to a cerain extent, and my feeling is that the only way that such an organisation would succeed is if it offered something that went far and beyond what the site offers now. The real problem, as I mentioned earlier, is finding the manpower and dedication to effectively launch such a project.

 

Some ideas that have been rolling around in my head and some that have been suggested by others over the months:

 

1. CGarchitect events held around the world, with guest speakers on various topics from the state of the industry to tutorials, classes and presentation of works.

 

2. A committee that could establish a set of codes and conduct for professional architecural CG artists and help artists with client disputes over payment or other issues acting as an impartial third party.

 

3. An online job bidding site where clients could post their jobs and instantly have access to the most skilled and professional CG artists from around the globe.

 

4. Contests, art gallery showings

 

5. Discounts on Software and Hardware from participating companies.

 

6. Certification programs to rate levels of knowledge and competance to deal with different types of jobs etc, and to provide an easier way for clients to rate the level of skill and aptitude a company has.

 

7. Online listings of member companies

 

Well there's a few ideas. Some very ambitious others more easily attainable. I think by forming an association like this it would be possible to hopefully ensure that there is a certain level of professionalism and standard to adhere to.

 

Thoughts, more ideas? Bring 'em on.

[nisus]

Hi Jeff,

 

A few thoughts:

 

*** 1. CGarchitect events held around the world, with guest speakers on various topics from the state of the industry to tutorials, classes and presentation of works.

4. Contests, art gallery showings

 

The combination of both sounds like a rocking good idea!

 

*** 2. A committee that could establish a set of codes and conduct for professional architecural CG artists and help artists with client disputes over payment or other issues acting as an impartial third party.

 

This sounds like a very hard one, as we've learned that ratings vary a lot depending on country/continent. On the other hand I think people should be able to avoid these problems themselves by making a contract. Thinking this way, I prefer the idea of conducting artists above problemsolving.

 

*** 3. An online job bidding site where clients could post their jobs and instantly have access to the most skilled and professional CG artists from around the globe.

7. Online listings of member companies

6. Certification programs to rate levels of knowledge and competance to deal with different types of jobs etc, and to provide an easier way for clients to rate the level of skill and aptitude a company has.

 

I have strong doubts against these. A few reasons:

- Ratings vary depending on country/continent, so artists in some countries can't stand against others.

- It would be hard for freelancers to fight against companies (time-shedule, price, job-hunting, complexity of tasks)

- only registered companies are involved, some might fall apart

- irl-briefings

 

Of course, this is on the site right now too, but somehow I got a feeling that it's more neutral the way it is now...

 

*** 5. Discounts on Software and Hardware from participating companies.

 

This is great as you benefit from participating without being forced to (like the previous ones)

 

*** a cga-magazine

 

I like this idea a lot. Our industry does not have this at the moment, so we have to find our resources somewhere else (this is great to explore new things/different views on things) but we hardly find exact use for our situation (this is why we might need a mag)

 

There has been a post in the forum regarding a cga-magazine allready. It's clear there is no such magazine at the moment.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000031

 

rgds

 

nisus

[CHE]

I agree with DelFoz and Nisus about the CGA Magazine topic. There isn't such a specialized source for our profession; I also think we need to show that we aren't just techies, that we are architectural artists. I think that it's time for those of us who haven't contributed yet, to make the sacrifice and put our efforts toward making this come to life. I know that many people that work in this industry have an overwelming schedule and that it's almost impossible to fit in such a project as a magazine. Still, I also know that there are people like me that are willing to help our community to grow and reach the next level. You can count on me for any future project where my manpower and skills may be needed. This is all about us, our CGA community. Thanks Jeff.

[alexandre]

hi guys,

 

why don't we just first start the association and then think of publishing a magazine - the magazine OF the association ? that would sound logical

 

nisus, you sure are european

 

jeff, just in case you haven't thought about it, why don't you use siggraph as a test for this possible association: talk it over between you lucky few , maybe let it "transpire", test your sponsors - i'm sure siggraph is an opportunity you shouldn't let go.

 

strat, wolf , any thoughts ?

 

rgds,

 

alexandre

[steven martin]

As regards a union/association.

As a visualiser in the u.k. I think that were are in need of some form of guiding body. One thet can help deal with employment/politital/european/worldwide issues.

After all as someone (sorry not good at names) put on an earlier message that we are all doing the same thing and all after the same results, but sometimes we have some problems along the way. (Mostly getting paid on time for me).

So I feel that it would be quite good to have some institution/organisation to consult and speak to.

[nisus]

hi alexandre,

 

I'll take that as a compliment

 

rgds

 

nisus