CGpeople, unite !

[superdave]

Intresting discussion, Most of you are certified architects, but there are the few of us that are just 3d artists trying to do really cool stuff and get our name out. This is a great idea if it does really happen and i'm willing to help but some more proof of the succes is needed to really get some powerful help. I also agree with nisus believe it or not what purpose does it really serve. Please convince everyone its a good idea.

 

I'm there for future help.

[John Dollus]

ASAI is a long standing organization dedicated to the art of architecture - medium is irrelevant.

There are more and more computer artists joining the organization every year. If we all join that organization and become involved, we can create a voice. After all, maintaining a professional organization is a fulltime job. Which one of us is willing to close our 3d app so we can push paperwork all day?

 

It sounds like some of you are looking for validation by adding letters after your name like the AIA, ASID or CSI in the traditional architecture field. Keep in mind that clients only care about what the product is and how much it is going to cost. AIA is generally only for the peacocks to display feathers and offers little practical value for the money. Jeff's site already offers most of the benfits of an organization free of charge:

-Resource library

-Networking via this forum

-Industry news

-Discounts on products applicable to us.

 

The only thing missing is a face-to-face meeting. With members scattered all over the globe, I can see many difficluties with that.

 

I have seen many local user groups come and go over the years. It is very demanding to administrate and maintain an organization. Who will give up 3d and push paperwork around and beg vendors for money/support? Not very appealing.

 

John D

[Guest gpbermeo]

Hello CG People,

 

I am just new here. Glad to hear from your views about the everexpanding CG community.

 

Well, I believe that one way or the other we should be able to organize this expanding community. Of course not as a union. An association which really would fit the best description for this community.

 

This will be a haven for opinions and info. A place for CG enthusiasts and professionals.

 

I believe that thru this association, people in the CG will be able to develop more this visual technology and bring professionalism in each and everyone.

 

I am happy to be a part of this prestigious community, though I am not that expert or high professional in this field but it gives me the motiviation to do more and more not to compete but to be able to contribute in the world of arts and design.

 

George Bermeo

[Guest jcparch]

Hi folks,

I have to agree with John and Nisus, Starting an organization is a slipery slope. As a brand new member I cant presume to say what is best for the community that gathers here. But, as a senior member of our society at large, I've seen many a good thing pounded to dust by the concept that

"This is great! - More has got to be greater!"

I was so impressed with this site that I made it my Homepage! I believe that one of the things that make this site so good is very likely the

obvious creativity and dedication of a few individuals - Associations hold an important place in our society but , by neccecity, they dilute the individual thought and can, therefore, impede creative progress. I just found this site!, and I would hate to see it aspire to be more like that stoggy old social club and gift shop -the AIA Keep up the great work!

 

John C. Patterson, AIA

[Brian Cassil]

I think this should be one of the main topic of discusion at the siggraph conference. There are a lot of issues that would need to be hashed out and I believe that getting peoples immediate response would be highly beneficial.

 

I've been planning on joining ASAI for quite a while but the lack of cg artists and thier apparent leanings toward traditianal media have made me hesitate. If enough of us joined that could change however.

 

I've talked with some of my colleuges where I teach and we've discussed setting something up locally (Salt Lake City) but having a worldwide presence with local chapters sounds even better!

 

The main advantage I see to being a part of an organization is that with some modest dues it would give the organization the ability to lots of things that a free website cannot. Like some sort of publication, hold meetings for both local chapters and world wide where ideas and tips could be shared and we could even have demonstrations from software vendors.

 

Baisically I'm all over the idea just not sure about whether it should be through ASAI or not. I see advantages and disadvantages to both sides of that issue, but I'm excited to help in any way I can.

[superdave]

Here's an idea that will solve both sides. It sounds like we are children needing a club to join, not an orginization. Yet we are all already members of a club and organization. It's called cgarchitect.com, that is the organization we all have in common, this is a form of a organization.

Although no actual meeting or events form from cgarchitect it does not matter its a great community. Why not help Jeff and the others expand on it?

[nisus]

Hi all,

 

I think both superdave and john read my mind well: cgarchitect.com IS already what most people dream of! (All credits to Jeff - Keep up the wonderful job)

On top of this, lot's of other people - mainly moderators and members - help the site a lot too. (tnx to all of you too)

 

In my opinion the only issue that cgarchitect.com lacks is a global irl-meeting, but with a subscription of over 70 attendees, the siggraph-meeting is sure going to overrule this.

I am sure many meetings will follow all around the globe and even where a widespread global location can impossible garuantee periodically irl-meetings an irc-medium sure can.

Unfortunately not many visitors found their way to #cgarchitect at this moment...

 

To be honest, I have strong doubts about periodically held cga-meetings - due to a globally scattered location of the members - because I figured that if people wouldn't meet 'the easy way' (irc), they would probably not meet a harder (irl) way. I am suprised yet very glad to see that so many people are going to meet during siggraph 2002. This is beyond my wildest dreams already (so I just got to find a way to join the event...)

 

rgds

 

nisus

 

[ July 08, 2002, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: nisus ]

[Jeff Mottle]

Wow, some very interesting dialog and probably one of the more lively and heartfelt debates on the site thus far. This is great!

 

A few comments on what I have read so far and some more suggestion.

It seems that overall the consensus is not to form a new organization, but rather further develop CGarchitect, which really is our community...is is not? Having read all the points of view I tend to agree. Just a thought, but if people are willing to help develop an association then why not help promote and develop CGarchitect? As I'm sure you all know I work stupids amount of time to keep the site running, so I can definetly use all the help I can get. And with more than a single mind I can only imagine where the site would go.

I feel really strongly about the future of this site and our community so developing new ideas together would make for an association and community in itself would it not?

 

I do however like John's idea about getting the masses to join ASAI, an established organisation with a good deal of credebility and resources. I could speak to some of the contacts I have there about this. It would be much easier to help develop an existing infrastructure than to build a new one from the ground. And it is true that not many of us want to push paper, god knows I do enough of that already. Maybe CGarchitect can help bring the two communities together??

 

As I posted in a thread a few minutes ago the total now registered for the CGarchitect party is 80!! If we continuually have this type of support I imagine that we could make this a yearly event. Bingo a global gathering!

 

Also,I did notice a few people speak of creating a magazine too. My feeling is that this industry is dying and will soon no longer exist. There have been many CG magazines come and go over the years, mostly going, and I can't even imagine the amount of work that would be required to do this. I think that online news sources will continue to grow while hard copy magazines fall by the wayside.

 

Keep the comments coming

[m.a.antelo]

reading this topic I want to mention that one of the goals of this community, association or whatever... could be among others, acting as advisors. There are people here that are the best using this medium or not ? I think that this voice weight. For whom, for example: the software industry, why not.What about the education of a CGArchitect.Sure there are many of us architects but the CG part are basically self-taught.Why we can't put together our experience and ideas.Then write something about it to people who wants to read it.

just my two cents.

[Brian Cassil]

In my mind the biggest issue of all this is the meeting in real life thing. I'm sure that most of you feel the same way I do in that you may feel isolated because you rarely interact with other cg architects/illustrators. Meeting at siggraph will be great, but having other, more regional meetings and demos on a more regular basis would be infinetly better. After all there is only so much to be gained by typing on a computer screen to each other.

[Lanni]

Brain, nicely put, It strengthens one of the points I made before.

 

Everone keep up the debate so we can come to some great solutions.

[alexandre]

hello again,

 

jeff, the ASAI is the AMERICAN society of architectural ILLUSTRATORS - why should we join "en masse" ?

it sounds like a better idea to me to just form an association based on cgarch.com and then maybe affiliate it if you feel like it - that way you're sure everybody joins ASAI at the same moment, which should give us some voice over there.

on the other hand someone asserted the superiority of everything web-based over the more traditional "paperworld"- i do not entirely agree: even though i deal with computers every day, i always felt some degree of reticence vs webstuff (hell, i don't even know what mirc is) to the point that cgarch.com is the first forum in which i feel free to voice some of my opinions - maybe others feel the same. That might also apply to sponsors: web communities come and go, an association may prove more stable.

 

just some thoughts,

 

rgds,

 

alexandre

[John Dollus]

Alex:

 

The only difference between a traditional illustrator and a computer artist is the toolset. It just happens our tools plug into the wall and give off radiation.

 

John D

[Brian Cassil]

I just checked asai's membership directory and it includes members from 25 countries worldwide. I think the "american" part of it is something that started a long time ago and doesn't really apply today.

 

On a side note you could check the world cup thread and offer your'e 2 cents about whatever "american" means.

[alexandre]

brian,

 

i meant no offense when i said asai is american, i would be honoured to join even if it hadn't members from 25 countries; i just don't feel that the asai is the organization that represents ME best - do you?

 

john,

 

illustrator, perspectivist, cg-artist, infographer, 3D-artist, modeller, renderer, whatever - the question remains the same as above.

 

rgds,

 

alex

 

PS Have fun at siggraph and save some tequila for us poor europeans (i wonder if one could MPEG tequila...... )

[Brian Cassil]

No offense taken at all. I just thought it would be good to point out that there is an international membership.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the debate about whether we should join an organization that represents architectural illustrators in general, whatever media they use (cg, watercolor, airbrush, etc.) or create a new organization just for cg illustrators/animators, is certainly a vital one.

[Ernest Burden III]

Originally posted by nisus:

[QB]Hi all,

 

I might sound very European on this but why do we need an association? What could it give us more, than this site does already? What extra do we need/want? Don't we already have what we want: a cg-community? nisus

 

Look, Jeff, I finally remembered my log-in! OK, my first post:

 

There are actually quite a few societies of the sort suggested. There is the very old Society of Illustrators, there is the newer Graphic Artists Guild-aka GAG -Membership in that organization makes you a member of the United Auto Workers, Local 3030, which I think is fun. It's not such a stretch--auto designers and visualization specialist work for the big auto companies, so there are already people like us in the UAW. GAG is a great group, top of the heap in my opinion.

 

There is the ASAP --oops, they want to be called ASAI--which has an international flavor but is, as someone observed, very formal. I was involved with them for their first decade but stopped renewing out of frustration with the parlimentary/academic mindset. But having said that, they could be a home for a sub-group. So could the GAG, which has that srtucture already.

 

Then there are many regional illustrators and renderers societies, one in England, Korea, Japan, probably Australia too. I have been in one that focuses on the New York City market for close to 20 years, the New York Society of Renderers. I have been President of NYSR for about eight years and will gratefully be relieved of duty by the end of this month. To learn more about the NYSR read my interview in CGarchitect.com archives.

 

The benefits of being in a professional group/society/union/gang are opportunities to promote the members and the art form, examples are shows and publications and website. See www.nysr.com Having a central listing of talent will help clients find the right professional for a project. But by far the most important to me is the community aspect. I enjoy knowing other professionals in my and allied fields. I learn from them and pass along what I know. I enjoy meeting other artists, which is much easier when you all work in one market, but can still be done with a national or world-wide group, just not as often or as inexpensively.

 

I could go on, but I am tired of typing, so I won't.

 

Ernest Burden III

[Brian Cassil]

Here-here Ernest! The things you mentioned in your'e last paragraph are the things missing in the architectural cg industry. Mainly, the opportunity to learn from each other more intimately. I'll say it once again, there is only so much we can glean from one another through chats, forums, online tutorials, etc.

[Ernest Burden III]

Originally posted by Jeff Mottle:

[i do however like John's idea about getting the masses to join ASAI, an established organisation with a good deal of credebility and resources.

 

You've got to be kidding. Did you read what I wrote about ASAI? They are fine people trying their best with that group, but it is run in the most archaic ways, not what a bunch of young whipper-snapper digital hot-shots need. And do not assume that they are financially stable, I hear that there are serious troubles, although I would think not fatal ones to the group.

 

No, if a CG community were to ponder joining any existing group it should be the Graphic Artists Guild. And I'm not even reccommending that course, just that destination should one walk that road.

 

>Also,I did notice a few people speak of creating a magazine too. My feeling is that this industry is dying and will soon no longer exist. There have been many CG magazines come and go over the years, mostly going, and I can't even imagine the amount of work that would be required to do this.

 

About the only money-pit I could think of to out-do a magazine would be a restaurant, or a bad drug habit. I disagree that magazines are dying, they are not. But certain markets lack the verticality (now there's a $10 word for you) to sustain a magazine. There's already too much preaching to the choir in this industry as it is. Books on rendering do not do very well, so why should a magazine? My wife used to be the mamanging editor of a womens business magazine. I remember her skepticism when, at least a decade ago, I suggested a magazine aimed at 'imaging professionals'. My wife now teaches, and is much happier.

 

In short, developing community is important, but so is recognizing the limitations that a relatively small, scattered and diversely thinking group of people present. Go slow and let things evolve naturally.

 

Ernest Burden III