Doing multiply compsite work (ambient occlusion) for *animations*?

[robkar97]

I really like to add an ambient occlusion pass as a "multiply blend layer" on top of my normal renderings for a quick and simple enhancement of images.

 

This is a piece of cake in Photoshop - but what software is most suited to do it for animations?

 

I don't really need all the bells and whistles of After effect or Premiere Pro... and they are a little too pricey for so simple work.

 

Cheers

Robert

[Stephen Thomas]

If you have vray, you can use the vray comptex material to do this.

[Ernest Burden III]

After Effects is the way I would do that, and that's about all I would use it for. I like Premiere better. But the new Photoshop CS3 Extended is supposed to have a timeline, so it would probably be able to do that. I'll find out soon, I just installed it a few hours ago.

 

However, most render engines have an AO option (sometimes called 'detail enhancement') built-in, so I would look there first. there are reasons to still use a layer blend to do AO over, of course.

[Justin Hunt]

CS3 if fantastic for colour correcting animations. easier than AE and in my opinion better results.

 

Now I do my colour correcting in CS3 and editing in premiere. I am yet to try doing the cc in cs3 then opening the psd file in AE.

 

JHV

[robkar97]

It would be nice to do all compositing (animation and still) in Photoshop! Can you set blending mode for layers made up from animations too?

[Chad Warner]

CS3 if fantastic for colour correcting animations. easier than AE and in my opinion better results.

 

Now I do my colour correcting in CS3 and editing in premiere. I am yet to try doing the cc in cs3 then opening the psd file in AE.

 

JHV

 

That's an interesting technique. I guess I always assumed it would be a little cumbersome.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

that is sweet. i just opened a 1.3 gig uncompressed AVI file in photoshop CS3, and was able to dup layers 3 times, scrub back and forth and play real time with no delay.

 

the one thing i couldn't do was apply a filter to an entire segment of an animation. it would apply it to the frame i was on, but that was it. ...i imagine there is a way though.

[Chad Warner]

that is sweet. i just opened a 1.3 gig uncompressed AVI file in photoshop CS3, and was able to dup layers, apply different screens, color correct, and ....scrub back and forth with no delay.

 

i was able to make 3 complete duplications of the animation as layers, and photoshop was still able to play it realtime. i am not sure AE could handle that.

 

AE still has its place, but this really makes some things more effecient.

 

Definitely. Ill have to try that.

[Justin Hunt]

At this stage there is alot that cant be done in CS3 that can in AE. Considering that this feature was introduced in CS3 it works rather well. I can see the division between photoshop and AE being blured alot more in the future.

 

JHV

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

yes, but keep in mind, color correction is a job for Premiere more so than AE.

 

i have not researched it yet, but Adobe has made a hard effort in the last couple of years to better integrate their projects with each other. meaning you can use AE files directly in Premiere the same as you can a AVI file. you can chop and thefile in the same manner, and still keep the AE file entact so you can revise your motion graphics and composits. it is far from perfect, mainly due to requiring a lot of computer power to process. however, i don't think that is the primary concern at adobe since computer power is something that is always advancing.

 

...i am guessing that adobe is integrating photoshop deeper into the process than what it has before, and making it take on a roll that it can handle better than AE. AE excels at motion graphics, but not at compositing. Compositing was almost a second thought that was added in to compete with other software. Photoshop on the other hand can composit and tweak really well comparatively. So if you remove the weak compositing from AE, then AE can focus on what it is better at, which is motion graphics. You put the composting into Photoshop, and some processing into photoshop, and it can handle what it was designed for, only this time with many frames, instead of still images.

 

this is the same that while you can video edit in AE, it is no comparison to video editing in Premiere, because Premiere was designed for editing, and AE can only edit.

 

now if adobe can get its head out of its bottom, and make bridge actually useable, it would be a sweet suite.

[Justin Hunt]

I must say the colour correcting in premire is horrid to say the least.

 

I did a project recently where there were lots of layers needed to be animated and keyframes. I thought AE would be perfect. It was until I got to sync the voice over with the animation. What a joke. I then tried to pull the AE file into Premire, only to find that all the text wouldnt come through as well a some layer effects. Needless to say I had to recreat it all in premiere.

 

Now with CS3 I can colour correct and composit and then edit in premire, works well

 

JHV

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I must say the colour correcting in premire is horrid to say the least.

 

I did a project recently where there were lots of layers needed to be animated and keyframes. I thought AE would be perfect. It was until I got to sync the voice over with the animation. What a joke. I then tried to pull the AE file into Premire, only to find that all the text wouldnt come through as well a some layer effects. Needless to say I had to recreat it all in premiere.

 

Now with CS3 I can colour correct and composit and then edit in premire, works well

 

JHV

 

 

I have not had to do a lot of color correcting in the past. Usually I am using a linear workflow, and expect my color to be rendered close to the point that I need it at. I did however think from what I have seen in Premiere, it is more in line with color correction at a higher level, than what AE is capable of. I will need to do more research into that.

 

…..but, I did want to comment on your AE to Premiere. Because of processing shortfalls I do not use AE composit’s directly in Premiere, but instead write out a uncompressed MOV file, with alpha channel included, and the edit it into my Premiere movie. I think this would have kept you from having to recreate the project in Premiere.

[Guest percydaman]

After Effects is the way I would do that, and that's about all I would use it for. I like Premiere better. But the new Photoshop CS3 Extended is supposed to have a timeline, so it would probably be able to do that. I'll find out soon, I just installed it a few hours ago.

 

However, most render engines have an AO option (sometimes called 'detail enhancement') built-in, so I would look there first. there are reasons to still use a layer blend to do AO over, of course.

 

just a small correction, but technically, vray's detail enhancement is not AO. Its not calculated in the same fashion, nor will it really look the same. What it does is use brute force calculations in these small nooks and cranny's, which can show better details, in a 'kinda' AO fashion, but at much larger rendertimes. I really never recommend it.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I

…..but, I did want to comment on your AE to Premiere. Because of processing shortfalls I do not use AE composit’s directly in Premiere, but instead write out a uncompressed MOV file, with alpha channel included, and the edit it into my Premiere movie. I think this would have kept you from having to recreate the project in Premiere.

 

I wanted to add, that if this is done right, then you still have a non-linear connection between AE and Premiere, meaning you canmake changes in AE, and update it in Preimere. Just make the AE change, and overwrite the MOV file, and then reload in Premiere.

[Justin Hunt]

I could have gone that route, however I needed to change the tining of many animated layers created in AE to match up with a voice over, which isnt possible to do with a mov.

 

It didn't take long though and the end result was great.

 

As to colour correcting the rendered image. LWF or not there is always CC needed, such as changing the mood of the image, shifting focus to different areas etc. I alway view my renders as a base to really dress up in post.

 

JHV

[louis.cho]

For compositing, color correction and vfx, combustion is a good piece of software.

[alfienoakes]

Just been playing with Photoshop CS3 Extended and Ernest is right.

 

You can import AVI files as layers, apply blend modes etc to them, then merge them into one animation file. There is then an export to video command which creates Mpeg or quicktime movies.

 

Pretty simple to use so far.. only had a quick look though. Am tryin to do the same as Rob is, blending images over an animation..