Don't know how to feel

[Hidden_Pixel]

Hey RErender,

 

You said "I am sure that if it came from one of our own we would be applauding it". Personally I would feel the exact same if it was an Arch Viz firm who used 75 people over four months and produced average results. I couldn't care less that it is SPI.

[MikeSeymour]

Hi

 

I have joined the discussion to say sorry.

 

That simple.

 

We did not intend to offend the Arch Viz community with the story on fxguide and we offer our apology.

 

We would like to suggest running some new stories highlighting the great work done in the Arch Viz community. But we also understand if you feel like 'screw 'em'. Either way we respect the work your community does and the high technical and creative standards in the industry.

 

Anyway just so you know it was published with no intent to offend the Arch Viz community.

 

Mike

(on behalf of the fxguide co-founders).

[trino]

I still see a lot of work consisting of the 360 fly around and the one shot walk through. It's not their fault that this is how the perceive our work, it is ours.

 

I think it is not our fault either, most of the clients (90%, maybe more) want exactly that, not a dandelion flying around their designs or 10 seconds of beatiful water shining, they want to show their designs as clearly as posible and most of the time you do that with static fly and walk troughs. This does not mean i wouldn´t love to have a client that ask me for something more, that´s for sure.

[Brian Cassil]

I think it is not our fault either, most of the clients (90%, maybe more) want exactly that, not a dandelion flying around their designs or 10 seconds of beatiful water shining, they want to show their designs as clearly as posible and most of the time you do that with static fly and walk troughs. This does not mean i wouldn´t love to have a client that ask me for something more, that´s for sure.

 

I'll say what would be an interesting read, and that would be an in depth piece on the dynamic between fx and arch viz.

 

This thread has put into words what many of us have felt for a long time and that is that people who work in film or even the game industry look down on arch viz as people who couldn't make it in "real" or "professional" graphics. And there are many in arch viz who look at film and game industries as some sort of special effects nirvana.

 

I really liked Chris Nichols presentation at the DMVC because it was the first real cross examination of the special effects industry I have seen.

[alias_marks]

Let's face it 90% of the Architectural Animations produced so far have been non-emotional and sterile. It is only recently that some have started to break the mold. I still see a lot of work consisting of the 360 fly around and the one shot walk through. It's not their fault that this is how the perceive our work, it is ours. Nils, they were not talking about your work when they said this.

 

Agreed whole heartedly. I'm think that our industry leaders are not who they were referring too in the article here. I think they are refering to the other 90% as you refered to RErender. If you google or youtube architectural walkthrough or animation you'll see the majority of what the world perceives architectural animations to be, when in reality we all know our industry is producing much better work at the forefront. It just hasn't trickled down much to the masses quite yet.

 

I'm a little taken aback by all the negative feedback here as well. I really think it's great to see some studios outside the normal players partaking here. Instead of backlashing against the "vfx guys" I think it should be embraced that other industries are taking an active interest in creating architectural animations with some character. At the very least it would be nice to open some dialog with this industry to hear how they are overcoming many of the same issues we've been dealing with. All the time, everyone learning and creating better work.

 

a landscape usually filled with non-emotional' date=' sterile sales videos.[/quote']

 

However, I do think it is a bit naive of Duggal & Team not to do the research to see what other studios are doing for cutting edge architectural animations. If they had done the research, they would clearly see that there are plenty of emmotional and dynamic examples quite like the one they created. Maybe they did, but just brushed it off for the article. Either way, not very professional.

 

As far as the competition Eddie, I think it's a great idea, but like some others have said, the approach kind of smells of spite. I would definitely opt for the charity idea recommended, but not something to directly compete and say "look at what I can do better than you." No negativity intended here.

[alias_marks]

Hi,

 

We would like to suggest running some new stories highlighting the great work done in the Arch Viz community. But we also understand if you feel like 'screw 'em'. Either way we respect the work your community does and the high technical and creative standards in the industry.

 

Sounds great and really appreciate the response Mike. I think the information fx guide produces is a great way of sharing information and helps us all to cross and understand different boundaries.

 

I for one, would never say "screw em." I would embrace the idea of sharing information across industries and think it's so important to keep all these doors open.

 

Thank you for verbalizing the appreciation the vfx community has for ArchViz, and personally I look up to the vfx industry and respect all what they accomplish as well.

[Spooner04]

All joking aside on my part. The guy that posted here in the thread, mike seymour, was the guy that wrote the article. He had expressed interest in doing a piece on some of the high end viz groups, prior to stumbling across our thread here. I think it would be awesome if maybe jeff, nils or some of the other guys could accommodate him. He's a nice guy and I'm sure he'd be great to work with. For what it is worth, the lady did have a point. The reason why neoscape, uniform, dbox,etc. have animations that stand heads above the rest of us is that they understand the methods that were developed in the fx industry. Apparently better than many of those in the effects industry themselves.

[Tommy L]

Hi

 

I have joined the discussion to say sorry.

 

That simple.

 

We did not intend to offend the Arch Viz community with the story on fxguide and we offer our apology.

 

We would like to suggest running some new stories highlighting the great work done in the Arch Viz community. But we also understand if you feel like 'screw 'em'. Either way we respect the work your community does and the high technical and creative standards in the industry.

 

Anyway just so you know it was published with no intent to offend the Arch Viz community.

 

Mike

(on behalf of the fxguide co-founders).

 

Mike,

Your apology is much appreciated and (for me) accepted. This forum, like most, has people with strong opinions and loyalties.

 

Its is a professional arena and while tempers may fray, good communication is, as always, the solution to everything. It seems one careless paragraph got some peoples backs up in this case.

 

I hope we see more top-end animations in this profession, it doesnt matter really how many people, which firm or which client pushes movies forward, theres market forces allowing all firms to compete.

 

I guess Sony is like Hollywood and the smaller guys are like the 'Indies'. I just hope a majority share of the wealth doesnt end up in Hollywood.

[Nils Norgren]

Wow I go away for the weekend and come back to this debate. I think that it is a testament to the industry that we are able to discuss some of these things (however one sided) and have a constructive discussion.

 

I thank Mike for his thoughtful response and his presence and willingness to read through our discussion. Our industry does take many of its cues from the VFX industrires, I have had more than a few people leave our studio and get work out west to work in visual effects. I have seen a few come out of that industry to work in ours.

 

Chris Nichols made the point at DVMC about Arch Viz professionals, with the architecture background, a knowledge of light and composition, photography, they make some of the best VFX artists. We have only to look as far as Joe Kosinski, who, last rumor I heard he has a 3 picture deal out in Hollywood.

 

I suspect that the offending points, whether directly quotes or not, were taken from Sheena Duggal, she claimed to have looked at "typical architectural visualization", I am sure that Mike is not in a position to question her when she said this, the article's purpose was to highlight this work from Sony Imageworks, and not questions the research or statements they make during the discussion. I may be wrong about this but it is just a hunch.

 

I think that there may be an inferiority complex within our industry, but there are many pluses to being in our position. An artist in the VFX industry has very little freedom in what they do, (this was a good point made in the article). We determine our fate more than many in that industry, we come up with the creative concept, pitch the idea, storyboard, concept, animate, we have freedom, we can use a new approach, visual device, narrative, or even just a cool effect we saw is a recent movie (or read about on a FXGuide article or podcast).

 

As has been said, there is much we can learn from the world of VFX, and perhaps there are things they might learn from us.

 

-Nils

[EddieLeon]

We would like to suggest running some new stories highlighting the great work done in the Arch Viz community.

 

Mike, your post is a welcomed surprise! Thank you for your clarification and apology. It is accepted. And now that we have avoided WW3, I look forward to reading your article on our community. Thanks!

[EddieLeon]

As far as the competition Eddie, I think it's a great idea, but like some others have said, the approach kind of smells of spite. I would definitely opt for the charity idea recommended, but not something to directly compete and say "look at what I can do better than you." No negativity intended here.

 

Yes. I am a hot-headed Cuban and that was the first passionate idea that popped into my head.

 

I strongly believe in giving back to our communities and I welcome a charity challenge. Tom Livings said he will present a charity project to us tomorrow. I would like to see what it is, although, I do agree with him that if they can afford an architect and construction then why should they get the 3d for free? Maybe we should think outside the box and do something that actually helps a person or community that can't afford 3d. Any ideas?

This topic should be a new thread.

[IC]

I can't see much to get upset about with the article. It is chest beating but there is truth at it's heart.

Most visualisation clients don't want great cinematography. They want a moving representation of their design at a very low cost and quick turnaround. That's what the industry is used to and what we expect.

So naturally, most of the stuff done is lazy and uninspired.

 

Costs are coming down as technology and small studio capabilities move on, however, and clients are slowly realising this.

Those who have made this realisation already have commissioned great stuff from people like Uniform so the standard will rise but at the moment, most of it is as the article describes.

[Hidden_Pixel]

Thanks Mike for posting. Your response was professional and straight to the point. Exactly what I would expect from the founder of a respected site such as fxguide.

[WAcky]

Hi

 

I have joined the discussion to say sorry.

 

That simple.

 

We did not intend to offend the Arch Viz community with the story on fxguide and we offer our apology.

 

We would like to suggest running some new stories highlighting the great work done in the Arch Viz community. But we also understand if you feel like 'screw 'em'. Either way we respect the work your community does and the high technical and creative standards in the industry.

 

Anyway just so you know it was published with no intent to offend the Arch Viz community.

 

Mike

(on behalf of the fxguide co-founders).

 

Thats guts right there.