how do chinese renderings take place

[chow choppe]

hi all

 

i always get amazed to see chinese renderings.

i always wonder what kind of lighting they use and most amazing part is the mood of the renderings. How well they merge with the background and lighting

Is theer any workflow that they follow because most of them look similar but each one amazing

 

see some examples

 

http://www.opdigital.net ( would like to hear it from the memeber of CGA itself)

http://www.ginsun.net/index2.htm

 

i know these guys are member here at CGA

it wud be really nice if they can share their workflow

like what softwares they use

what kind of lighting they use

especially their glass and water materials are wonderful and have awesome reflections, whats the trick behind those lovely reflections.

what kind of infrastructure in terms of PC configs they have and how much time do the renderings take to finish from scratch

How many people work on one rendering

 

maybe they can also start some visualization insider series like brian's

 

Thanks

[STRAT]

being Chinese is just a coincidence. Yes, there is a lot of superb work coming out of China, but being Chinese isn't a requirement. It's the artist, his artistic brain and ability, and the tools he uses (to a lesser degree). The examples you posted are common to decent artists all around the world.

 

You a just very new to all of this thats all. In the majority of cases i suspect most of the top artists use 3dstudio max with Vray. I suggest you go and start studying and learning. To be that good you need talent more than anything, so i suggest you start practicing too. All your questions you asked can be answered by practicing and learning.

 

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

well, IMO one thing people can do if their goal is more photorealistic is to desaturate their images about 8 % or so in post. most renderings that try to be photoreal are over saturated. when it comes to hybrid or NPR, the decision is based more on taste. some over saturate even more, and de-saturate even less.

[znotlin]

I'm not sure it is coincidence that they're Chinese, in fact I would surmise that the arts are much better funded in the Chinese educational system than they are in the rest of the world. I would also guess that the rampant availability "cheap" or "free" software would allow many more talented people to experiment with the medium. I would also guess that because their renderings are so cheap that architects don't feel entitled to comment their renderings to death and drain the life out of them. I also think because of this dispensible/quick nature of the business transactions that there is a real emphasis on the big picture and not necessarily the details - which translates really well to small images on your computer screen. And finally the Chinese do have a tradition of emulating artistic forms passed on to them from prior generations, or in this case the west.

 

So I don't think it is coincidence there is a lot of work that looks good coming from China (add in that they probably work harder than we do because it's an emerging market economy and that's what people do) but I don't think they have any special workflow secrets denied the rest of us. So STRAT is right - you need to practice, and do tutorials that are already out there - there is no ancient Chinese Secret.

[chow choppe]

maybe being chinese is a coincidence

but IMO i can see a rendering and if its chinese i can tell that starightway

the amount of detail they put in their site plans and thei glasses and life happening around the building is commendable

i saw some max files coming from these people and saw that it was not about vray also. they were as good with scanlines also.

The important thinkg is that i wanted to know if u look at the glass the water and spotlights /higlights falling on the glass and light gradient from one side of the perspective to another which gives a clear picture of the where is the light coming from and is it evening or mornink. is the environment yellowish , bluish etc etc

Maybe if i cud grab some images and write my questions on that. because know i do a lot work in vray and practice also a lot but still not able to get those results. maybe i am not as artistic as them but then i can always learn .

studying the concepts is helpful but to achieve those concepts is tough for me.

 

so any information on how those artstic effects are achievable it will be really helpful to the community. I am sure there are more people here who wud gain a lot from this kind of thread

 

Regards

[Tommy Burns]

I agree with you Chow it would be very helpful to at least know what type of programs they are using and workflows. If you are posting all that work in this forum (and it is very good and different from other work on here) I don't think it's a big ask to explain a little how you are doing it, everyone else has no problems explaining it and giving some hints and tips. As with all the work on here there are many different ways of creating images. So when someone says it's all about practice it would be nice to know what you should be practicing rather that wasting time trying to work out how things where done. All i'm saying really if someone is posting a lot of work in here for help or credit they really should give something back especially when they have been asked numerous times. It's all about sharing!!!!

[Hidden_Pixel]

Best to try and create your own individual style instead of trying to copy others. There is no magic secret, just hard work and thinking outside of the box.

[Tommy Burns]

Best to try and create your own individual style instead of trying to copy others. There is no magic secret, just hard work and thinking outside of the box.

 

Ah here!!!

I am by no means asking for a magic wand or something but everybody does need some type of path to follow before you create your own style (which is always created out of a mixture of other styles) Not everyone in here has loads of experience it would just give them some direction that's all. Ehat they should be looking at.

Is this not the idea of a forum like this?????

I'm baffled!!!

[STRAT]

even if these artists give you their work flow, what makes you think you'll be able to learn from it or see things any clearer?

 

individual style really is the key. My own methods for instance are off the wall, different from a manual, and individual to me. another competant artist might look at my methods and laugh or be most confused. there is no standard.

 

the best way you can learn and develop is to use other people's work as inspiration. just try to copy their results if you want. Then, learn how the software works (as mentioned, vray is a good standard to use). Once you've learned the software and started to 'copy' or be inspired by other people's work, your own styles and methods and work flows will follow.

 

As i say, dont worry about work flows, as most are individual and non-standard. things you cant learn follow and learn. but things you develop.

[Tommy Burns]

Ok I am not looking to copy anybody I don't want all my renderings to look like this. It is just some people would like to know how they did it why not tell them? (I think they are planning on doing this anyway)

But just the other day I learned about "mr render subset of scene" this has changed my workflow unbelievably what a tip!!!! and it came out of someone explaining their workflow. (Master Zap I think it was)

There is no way I could have "developed" this, sometimes a bit of info goes a long way and it certainly has it my case.

 

Does this explain it any better and where I'm coming from:confused:

[STRAT]

it does. hints and tips are a massive help.

 

but he developed that workflow, why couldn't you? why convince yourself there's no way you could have thought of it? he did.

[Hidden_Pixel]

I see where you are coming from Tommy. Just remember that you can also learn what not to do from other peoples work. Sometimes it is good to look at others peoples work and think about how you could improve it. This does not always come down to technical knowledge but maybe an artistic decision.

[Hidden_Pixel]

Exactly Strat, too many people are afraid to think outside of the box. To me it makes you much more valuable to a company if you can innovate.

[Tommy Burns]

this is gettin silly

Nobody knows everthing. By telling us about this procedure I learned how to do something much faster by him sharing. It could have taken me a long time to stumble across this on my own, it's a big program to cover. But thankfully I was put in the right DIRECTION and I'm very grateful.

This has given me the freedom, knowledge and speed to better develop my own style.

[znotlin]

tips and tricks are helpful, I would definitely buy some books on the subject, and look around for tutorials, or work in a larger shop where you can exchange ideas. But what puzzles me is the idea that workflow is a determinant on how an image looks - people have been making unbelievable images (and ugly ones) for a long ass time and used workflows involving paintbrushes, photographic prints and computers - it simply has little bearing on the feel of these images that you like vs. the ones that you don't like. It is the same workflow and the difference is the artists.

 

Certainly if you're a shop that has hundreds of artists, and are producing these things as cheaply as they are you are going to have efficiencies in terms of libraries, and specialists - but it is the same stuff we all do and the shortcuts they've discovered they're not likely to share because it took them a long time to develop them. So cut 'em some slack - this is the way most artists have worked for centuries (if you don't believe me look at David Hockney's book - artists are a secretive lot)

 

they ain't gonna give it away the objective is to get to the point where you can reverse engineer what the heck makes it look good to you. That said, if they can do it, you're already likely to be more expensive than they are - so you probably want to row in a different direction.

[trino]

i saw some max files coming from these people and saw that it was not about vray also. they were as good with scanlines also.

 

So you have the max files and still don´t know how they do it ?? maybe there is some post work but if you have the chance to see their files and still don´t know what they use, don´t know what will help you.

[chow choppe]

i am amazed that the links that i gave havent replied to this yet but they are busy dispalying their works in finished work forum

Whats the use of forum help then

[shaneis]

i am amazed that the links that i gave havent replied to this yet but they are busy dispalying their works in finished work forum

Whats the use of forum help then

 

I'd be guessing that it's more a case of "we are currently very busy, doing very good business and making a substantial profit by using this workflow - we are not about to show the rest of the industry our trade secrets". Completely understandable from where I'm sitting. Wouldn't you do the same? It is, after all, the artist's prerogative to keep their techniques as their own...hey, the art world still can't duplicate Monet's under-painting technique...so I wouldn't hold your breath

[chow choppe]

no i am not of that opinion

i wud love to help if someone asks me how did i make that glass

or how cud i make those lovely reflections in pool.

busy is alrite but dont agree to not sharing info

[Tommy Burns]

I agree totally Chow they get a lot of help of us with our comments on their work and they have been asked numerous times for a few tips and nothing back.

[chow choppe]

yes even i am ready to buy a book if they ever think of releasing one

i dont feel that people like Brian 3DATS who are contributing so much to the community ever feel that sharing will hamper their business.

We respect them for that

he is still the master and i am a learner

[shaneis]

I agree totally Chow they get a lot of help of us with our comments on their work and they have been asked numerous times for a few tips and nothing back.

 

Valid point - "what comes around, goes around" I guess. To be fair though, I've seen some great advice from other Chinese artists, Chen Qingfeng for example. Maybe the studios you mentioned are just taking a while to get in the swing of things. Give them a chance, "share and share-alike" is a universal ideal.

[STRAT]

people have the right to post and reply or not reply (fortunately or unfortunately).

 

if a pro decides to just post pretty images, get crits, and give nothing back, well thats his prerogative, and he shouldn't be publically bashed for it. it's most unprofessional.

 

it may frustrate you that they dont give anything back or reply to specific questions or emails, but again, thats their free choice. If this is the case, the best a learner can do is study the picture posted and learn by it.

 

A lot of us learned our trade by years of trail and error and blood sweat and tears, without the use of a public wealth of knowledge from the internet. Ok, i'm not saying you should do it all yourself without help, but i am saying it's more than possible.

 

It is fabulous to share, and makes learning a whole lot easier and faster, but hey, dont knock others for not sharing. Perhaps they dont like sharing, or it's not in their character to give advice, or they dont just want to for whatever reason. They must have their privacy respected, not bashed. And if you feel their attitude is arrogant and unfriendly, then again, their choice. You only show yourself up by complaining at them.

 

Also, and this is in no way aimed at any person individually, has anyone ever considered they might not actually be cut out or have the aptitude for this type of work? You need a basic talent for it in the first place. Yes, computers and aide massively and help make your pictures sing, but if you haven't got 'it' in the first place, it's going to be a constant up hill struggle to get by. You can certainly hone and develop your skill, but perhaps you haven't got the basic skill to start with.

 

Just my opinions of course

[chow choppe]

yes

i feel its just difference in opinion

[Gus_Rayvus]

I think that learning to walk before you can run is good advice. Looking at someone elses file is not going to help you unless you know why the artist made the decisions they did.

When I started out it seemed like an impossible task. I followed someone's advice and tried to recreate a magazine image and basically taught myself from there.

I sought help and got a lot of criticism from talented people.

I am now pretty confident in what I do, and enjoy the fact that I still learn something new everyday. It helps to be open to new ideas which can only improve your work.

I have recently taught an intensive class. I came away with the realisation that people want instant answers, instant solutions, a button that does everything, a formula and a set of digits to input.

I have yet to find the 'free' script for the button that 'does everything' and answers the following questions: How do I do this? What settings should I use? Where can I find this already modeled and for free? Is there a plug-in to do that.

There are a lot of would-be artists with no desire to spend time and learn the craft, that is people want to do it but don't care about the doing, it is a craft which needs to be constantly honed and fine-tuned. As technology changes there is always something to learn, that keeps me on my toes.

In a way it seems like a shame, because you are signing off on being only as good as the guy who is showing you how.