Hidden_Pixel Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I was checking out this website and wondered if I am the only one who is annoyed by the following diatribe, see link below: http://www.archiviss.com/why_outsource.php Am I the only one who thinks it is out of order that they highlight why a U.S. CAD drafter is a waste of resources. American companies should have an area on their website that says "Reasons Why You Should Not Outsource". Believe me I understand that outsourcing is a fact of life, I just don't like they way this company goes about justifying it. How about they assure clients that they will hit deadlines, that there will be no issues with communication, that they provide great customer service, etc. I know this has probably been discussed before but I felt I had to vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyElNino Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 If you can assure no communication problems and exactly the same product then, on the scales that some companies operate at, they'd be silly not to consider it. With savings like that on offer its too expensive to prop up local labour markets, after all, thats global capitalism in action. A firm has a duty to find the most cost effective solutions for its shareholders and has no obligation to pay local people more money to do the same job. The only way to tackle it is through government legislation (restrictions) or subsidization and incentives all of which are unfair really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattclinch Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 i think that website looks at it from a completely analytical financial standpoint. there is no mention of quality, commitment, communication or involvment and understanding of the project. i dont agree with this 'benefit' though - "increase flexibility to meet changing business conditions". firstly, the sentance is grammatically incorrect 'increaseD' not 'increase'. and secondly, trying to get hold of an indian draughtsman at 4am to make last minute mullion detail changes is hardly a flexible way to work. or do they mean 'you wont have to fire people if you aren't making any money'? i've not heard of any major architects outsourcing their drawings, and would find it baffling if they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden_Pixel Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hey BillyElNino, I completely agree with you. I just didn't like the way this particular website went about it. Seems unprofessional to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden_Pixel Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Totally agree Matt, There is no mention of quality, commitment, communication or involvement and understanding of the project. This to me would have been a more professional way of trying to get business. Instead of saying, look how much money your CAD drafter is wasting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfa2 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 We do a lot of federal government and military work, overseas outsourcing is totally out of the question for us. But I understand the concern, there are quite a few threads on CGA about this topic, they pretty much all come to the same conclusion...it sucks for people that are paid a "normal" wage, but we do live in a global economy. Try to score some work with the FBI or the US Armed Forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyElNino Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Its not unusual for the technical drawing packages to be outsourced after the planning and initial design process. I have not personally come across this outsourcing going abroad but I know we have previously picked up post design / planning drawing packages. I think the biggest issue would be local building control / regulations knowledge as well as time difference and communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dSol Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 The aggressiveness of that advertisement is such, that they have fallen into nonsense, I really don't think that any serious firm (that they seem to be after) would consider their arguments, it really looks like a hungry money machine instead of a digital artists atelier. and it is annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden_Pixel Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 I agree 3dSol. I also don't think flashing USD10 hour and Free Trial Offer does them any favors. When I see offers like this, the first thing that crosses my mind is the question of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Try to score some work with the FBI or the US Armed Forces. Our firm is focused on municipal clients, water and river authorities, and the military as well. FBI would probably be a client with very interesting projects. They need buildings too and I would imagine a bulk of the work in that market would be forensics. Crime scene reenactment would be a nice change of pace and a real technical challenge to nail accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 During my many years experience as an inhouse cad technician, I never had a situation where concept sketches were handed to me and I delivered finished documents without there being a fairly elaborate interchange in between. And I was considered to be very knowledgeable and competent. Communication is key. Even if I worked at home occasionally, there was what seemed like a steady stream of emails, phone calls and faxes until at least the 90% submittal phase. This was 10 years ago, though. Even though a lot has changed in the cadd world since then, I don't believe that outsourcing cadd work is something that most companies would feel was feasible - even the ones who think it's the computers that do all the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 This is quoted form their website: "So benefits of outsourcing are: * Lower cost due to economies of scale, as already analyzed above. * Ability to concentrate on core functions (to focus on design etc) * Higher quality service due to focus of the supplier * Improved internal management disciplines resulting from the exercise itself * Less dependency upon the internal resources * Control of budget * Faster setup of the function or service * Lower ongoing investment required in internal infrastructure * Increase flexibility to meet changing business conditions * Purchase of industry best practice I dont think i agree with any of these points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Purchase of industry best grammar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt McDonald Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Base Salary USD 35000 76% Bonuses USD 500 1% Social Security USD 2450 5% Disability USD 700 1.5% Healthcare USD 3500 7% Pension USD 700 1.5% Time off USD 3800 8% Total USD 4500 100% F'ing over a hardworking employee to save a buck Priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 At the listed rate, that would be 217 hrs of time off. Much like the benefits, me thinks the figures are broad generalizations and bear a bit more scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I would like to point out to you guys that that site isn't aimed at any of you guys... it is specifically written for the clueless management-types that run many US businesses that want to squeeze every last penny out of their organization, just so they themselves can pocket the difference. Words like "outsourcing" and "cost-savings" are exactly the buzz-words that these people want to hear, even if it usually is a penny-wise, pound-foolish proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden_Pixel Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 It may be written for clueless management-types. But we work sometimes for clueless management-types, what's your point. Their lack of professionalism still indirectly affects us. You know what, as many companies like this can pop up, I don't really care. What they don't take into consideration is the perception of quality. Do I think for that price based on their website I will get great service and fantastic renders, no!. Would I want to work for a client who would rather save as much money as possible and potentially take a hit on quality and customer service, no!. End of story, let them have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWSARCH Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 We tried outsourcing to an off shore company and it was a waste of time. It was a simple paper drawing to 3D architectural desktop conversion. They just couldn’t get it to look anything like the building. They where baffled by the concept of making a new material?? They gave up and didn’t charge us anything, but I wasted so much time reviewing and commenting on the work it cost us money in the end. We also missed a deadline. I wound up doing it in about 18 hours. The estimate we got from them allowed 40 hours of their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I would have though that the legalities and risk management would have a field day on why you shouldn't outsource. Heck they have a great time lecturing us in-house. If a building falls down because a detail wasn't drawn to code, who is responsible? The architects or the outsourced drafties? I agree with Fran, considering the free flow that many designs have right up until construction (and even during construction) I see outsourcing a hindrance rather than a help. We even have issues co-ordinating between two offices in different cities, let alone different countries. Having gone through a project where there were three different firms working on three different parts of one building ( in design and 3D model) and another firm just doing the rendering , the head aches trying to co-ordinate them, I would hate to throw in another one to the mix. JHV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mann Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I think the fact that this company puts their portfolio at 7th position in their side menu list and after "prices" and "why outsource" says it all. It doesn't even make it into the top menu bar. Our industry is images and animations. Our work should be the first thing a potential client sees. As for the images that are there... ...looks like you get what you pay for ; ) Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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