best method for object anim GI?

[Ernest Burden III]

On the Cinema4D vray forum STRAT posted some tests of vray object animation, and was trying to eliminate flickering while maintaining a good frame rendertime. We've been debating it, but I wondered what you Max/vray users would have to say.

 

How do you achieve a good flicker-free GI object animation?

Brute Force primary + LC?

IM + LC?

etc.

 

Its the same vray engine, we C4D'ers simply aren't as used to using it.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

maybe the concepts in the linked thread below have been covered since strat was invloved in it, but it might not be a bad one to read for a few of the Max methods.

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/28686-new-v-ray-irradiance-map-animations.html

[exception]

I'd use Kray with its time interpolation method if you're not married to Max.

It progressively fades GI solutions in to the scene allowing you to do every sort of animation without any flicker.

[Ernest Burden III]

maybe the concepts in the linked thread below have been covered since strat was invloved in it, but it might not be a bad one to read for a few of the Max methods.

 

Thanks. That reads a lot like the thread STRAT started in the vray/C4D forum. I guess there is not an accepted best way to do object animation GI. Perhaps I should get Chris Nichols' two DVDs, I've been meaning to for a long time.

[exception]

Oh this was Vray specific, sorry.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I should be hesitant to speak because I haven't done an object animation with the latest build and some of the current features, but when I was working on this project, I was using IM + LC with no saved maps, letting it calculate for each frame. These were fairly simple scenes though.

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/27568-project-development-animation.html

[F J]

Thanks. That reads a lot like the thread STRAT started in the vray/C4D forum. I guess there is not an accepted best way to do object animation GI. Perhaps I should get Chris Nichols' two DVDs, I've been meaning to for a long time.

 

hey,

C.Nichols doesnt cover object anim in those..

but the lighting solutions presented there might just do the trick anyways..

i remember him talkin' about stuff like pixel swimming n stuff, so..

i'd get the DVD's anyway tho, its good stuff..

sorry i cant confirm this, i need to finish my WIP first before i get into anime..

[Logitek]

I personnaly use the Animation Prepass/Rendering new feature (it wasn't there before V1.5Final) for moving object (with GI of course).

With the same preset settings (medium for example), you will get more noise than when using the Single Frame Mode, BUT the noise will stay where it is throughout the animation.

 

I hope this helps... (and that you also have this feature in Vray for C4D!)

 

cheers,

[STRAT]

we do have anim pre-render modes, but the noise doesn't stay put.

[Ricardo Eloy]

I've rendered an animation with the pre-render mode and it looks pretty noise-free. The GI was calculated fast, and you can hardly see any deffects. Except in one of the machines, but that was an isolated case.

[Logitek]

we do have anim pre-render modes, but the noise doesn't stay put.

 

Can you show us a quick test render with a very simple scene? Maybe that moving noise is something unrelated to IR?

[Devin Johnston]

I've rendered an animation with the pre-render mode and it looks pretty noise-free. The GI was calculated fast, and you can hardly see any deffects. Except in one of the machines, but that was an isolated case.

Same thing here, I use it all the time now and have had no problems with flickering and noise has been minimal.

[kippu]

i recently am doing the same and had problems with the anim prepass thing ...and it got slower and slower ...so i went the old way of rendering both separate and comping them...using single frame for the moving machines and the regular way for the room...and since there might be changes i can just re render the animated part again and be done with it

[STRAT]

Can you show us a quick test render with a very simple scene? Maybe that moving noise is something unrelated to IR?

 

sure, here's a quickie test of a basic scene. only 2 objects (floor and box). No lights, just environmental background gi.

 

http://www.nikclark.com/strat/vray/box03.mov

 

my settings are -

 

 

PRIMARIES

 

IR = min -3, max - 0

hems - 125, ints - 30, intplt frms - 6

int thrs - 0.3, nom thrs - 0.1, dist thrs - 0.5

 

 

SECONDARIES

BF (or QMC) = sub - 8, ray - 3

 

i'm on c4d not max. And yes, there's no AA, but AA doesn't effect IR gi. it flickers exactly the same with AA on or off. And i'm assuming it is a gi problem as there's nothing else in the scene that it can be.

[womble]

hey,

C.Nichols doesnt cover object anim in those..

but the lighting solutions presented there might just do the trick anyways..

i remember him talkin' about stuff like pixel swimming n stuff, so..

i'd get the DVD's anyway tho, its good stuff..

sorry i cant confirm this, i need to finish my WIP first before i get into anime..

 

 

Chris's first DVD, the external one has a chapter on animation, where he orbits the camera around some monolith looking objects and discusses artifact swimming.

[Logitek]

Chris's first DVD, the external one has a chapter on animation, where he orbits the camera around some monolith looking objects and discusses artifact swimming.

 

yes indeed. But there are no objects moving in his scene. Only the camera.

[Logitek]

...and it got slower and slower

 

Had the same problem. I found out that stopping the prepass and restarting it at the same frame you stopped it at, magically makes the prepass rendering fast again. When it slows down again, stop it and restart...

[womble]

yes indeed. But there are no objects moving in his scene. Only the camera.

 

 

Touche! ;-)

[Ernest Burden III]

I found out that stopping the prepass and restarting it at the same frame you stopped it at, magically makes the prepass rendering fast again. When it slows down again, stop it and restart...

 

From experience with C4D's GI engine, I would suspect you'ld get a 'jump' in the GI, a visible artifact.

 

The problem is that we are using methods to avoid a full calculation of GI per frame. Maxwell and Fry would do that, and take a massive time to do it. So we use a quicker method but it has inherent noise or approximations, and when those shift, we see it. At least that's what I was seeing in STRATs tests. We just need to find the best settings and put up with a little imperfection that allows us to get our work done.

[Logitek]

sure, here's a quickie test of a basic scene. only 2 objects (floor and box). No lights, just environmental background gi.

 

http://www.nikclark.com/strat/vray/box03.mov

 

my settings are -

 

 

PRIMARIES

 

IR = min -3, max - 0

hems - 125, ints - 30, intplt frms - 6

int thrs - 0.3, nom thrs - 0.1, dist thrs - 0.5

 

 

SECONDARIES

BF (or QMC) = sub - 8, ray - 3

 

i'm on c4d not max. And yes, there's no AA, but AA doesn't effect IR gi. it flickers exactly the same with AA on or off. And i'm assuming it is a gi problem as there's nothing else in the scene that it can be.

 

Hello Steve,

the terms are a bit different in Max... if hems corresponds to HSph. subdivs, 125 is very very high... it is recommended (in Max at least) to keep it around 20.

I got rid of some splotches raising the Interp. samples ("ints" for C4D I would guess) to ±50-60.

By default, the Interp. frames is at 2 in Max.

 

Just a quick question. Your box material doesn't have reflection at all, does it? It couldn't be a reflection artifact caused by the lines on the floor, could it?

[STRAT]

no. no material reflection.

 

in c4d the higher the HSph value the better. 20 is an absolute no no in c4d averagly, for decent gi, 50+ is good.

 

Getting rid of splotches is also an Interp setting issue, but the higher you go you can actually create artificial splotes with the settings. again, around 20-30 is normal in c4d.

 

i'm doing an ongoing test at this moment in the c4dvray forum with the software owner. unfortunately, at the moment, we're going round in circles.

[Ernest Burden III]

we're going round in circles.

 

That's why I asked here, though I think we still are somewhat.

[Logitek]

i'm doing an ongoing test at this moment in the c4dvray forum with the software owner. unfortunately, at the moment, we're going round in circles.

Then ask him why he changed the numbers influence (ex: Hsph 20 in max = +50 in C4D) between softwares

Now I'm all lost with your settings!

[STRAT]

Then ask him why he changed the numbers influence (ex: Hsph 20 in max = +50 in C4D) between softwares

 

 

it's giving me a big enough headache as it is mate!

[Logitek]

I'll make a quick test in Max with the same kind of scene...