pickle Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Is that in the customize tab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 It's Revit - you need to do Edit Family on the Make Art button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrvr1 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Those Revit "webinars" always make it look like you can do a complete DD set and a bunch of renders from scratch in 2 hours, but when you really get into it things get more complicated. It's really no more a "make building" button than it is a "make art" button. Oh my. Truer words have never been spoken. Architects barely have time these days to put a decent bid set together, let alone set up this Uber 3D environment that's all connected to their live documents via Revit or whatever 'Flavour of the Month' software is being peddled. The setup time for all of these 'smart' CAD programs is enormous. Seriously. The management of that data on an ongoing basis is a full-time job. What you find is that small to mid size firms are using them (sort of), while the larger firms are still very much in 2D land. Maintaining BIM or Revit or whatever on a $150mil tower project in Dubai? Forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moir Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I work in the visualisation studio of an architectural firm, I'd like to raise three points; firstly we're all so busy (touch wood) that there's a role for both architects and visualisers here, and I can't see that changing for some time. We are the architect's magic render button, if you will. Secondly, if your studio is set up efficiently you ought to already be doing one button renders, at least to some degree. Why fiddle with a workflow that worked last week? We prefer to spend time improving the designs. Lastly, and I don't want to offend anyone, but I think the title "artist" is bandied around far too much in this industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrvr1 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Lastly, and I don't want to offend anyone, but I think the title "artist" is bandied around far too much in this industry. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znotlin Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Lastly, and I don't want to offend anyone, but I think the title "artist" is bandied around far too much in this industry. I think that is true for society as a whole for at least the last 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Yep Id agree, not much of what we do is art at all (art being a very broad term) we are more like technical drafters in all seriousness. Art is self expession, arch vis has very little room for this, and no changing the sun colour from yellow to orange is not expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 It really bothers me how half of the people posting are worried about things advancing and changing. In any industry you need to adapt and utilize the technology to create a better product than what you were previously able to or you should get out of the game. My feelings towards AutoDesk developing all of this is, ....I hope it is as good as what you say, and I am looking forward to figuring out how I can utilize it in my workflow to make the work better and more informed. I like the idea of not needing to redraw a building if someone wants to see visualizations of it. That means that half of the work is already done. ...but don't let that fool you. The computer was supposed to make everyones life easier in general. We could do our work in half the time. Instead it would up meaning that we needed to do three times the amount of work in half of the time we had before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Oh, ...and another thing. Have you ever seen the quality of the entourage models used in Revit to keep the files efficiently usable? They are ugly to say the least. Though they will get better as technology develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 The same could be said for computers in general. The more they advance, the easier it makes our work, the harder we push the envelope. We have the uncanny ability to make things more complicated no matter easy the developers try to make it. I agree that we are also the ones who have been requesting and pushing the development, so rather than complaining that Adesk is taking over, why not use our influence to steer it in the direction that makes us happy. Take control for yourself jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 I don't think Autodesk cares much about what we thing, if they did they wouldn’t have cancelled Viz, they would spend some time improving things in Max like the multithreading of operations or better network rendering support. There are many ways they could improve upon their existing software, they know what they are because we've told them, and they just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 I think they (and a lot of software companies) have decided it's better marketing to add flashy features rather than work on the fundamentals.The same seems to be true in many fields - look no further than the number of architects who can't detail and visualizers who can only do one "look". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Archviz is going through a really interesting time right now. Its coming of age. There is alot more focus on our industry as its becoming more main stream and more accecable to the masses. So its up to us on how we conduct ourselves. Do we want to become a bunch of wingers, part of an exclusive club where you need the right school tie to join, or are we going to open our doors and guide the masses into a truely proffesional and respected industry? If its the latter, then lets get on with educating those who think that it is just a "one button" solution. Teach them that the knowlage and skill we have developed goes beyond a bunch of settings. By doing this they will understand that, sure you can get by with the "happy snap, point and shoot" solution, but if you really want to stand out and have the edge over the competition then come to those who know how to give you that edge. As such its up to you to decided how you can deliver that edge. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 I don't think Autodesk cares much about what we thing, if they did they wouldn’t have cancelled Viz, they would spend some time improving things in Max like the multithreading of operations or better network rendering support. There are many ways they could improve upon their existing software, they know what they are because we've told them, and they just don't care. I dont think it a case of not caring about the user but more a case of caring for the shareholders more. As to Viz, the writing was on the wall for a long time. Quite frankly, I am amaized thet Viz users put up with being 6 months behind Max and the rather poor/ limited implemation of new features, network rendering etc. I do see "design" and Max becomeing more separated with Maya and Max more alingned. Time will tell. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Gray Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I don't think our Arch Viz jobs are going anywhere. We choose to be complacent or strive to be the best at what we do. New software is being introduced all the time. If we freaked out over every new application, man I wouldn't have any hair left! Viz is used for many different things and working with city review commities...they don't want to see the cheap renderings, they want what it's going to look like in 9 months after the construction is done and their driving down the road. Take a breather...study your craft and be the best at it. Make them want to come to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedogok Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 We have been using the betas of both Max and Revit for a few months. The Mental Ray addition makes the Revit "images" look better but it is by no means the same as 3DS Max/Mental Ray "renderings". That is how we sell it, we get some nice quick views out of Revit, usually more about section cuts of the model or a geometry review but final renderings are always done in Max. The Revit rendering just isn't "quality" enough even with Mental Ray over Accurender. The nice thing about the Mental Ray addition to Revit is the ability to assign the materials in Revit and get a better looking "rough" and have them transfer to Max. it has streamlined that process. As others have stated, there is no "magic button" for visualization or contract documents, what I really like Revit for over Autocad is the ability to create a rough quickly to see if you are even going in the right direction design wise. I also like how it handles the nitpicky stuff on CD's like section cuts/referencing updating as that is one less thing to have to check. As far as large firms using Revit, most are going to it because there are clients who are demanding its use. We are a midsize firm (80 employees in 2 offices) and adopted it years ago, the large firm that I used to work for (over 1,000 employees in many offices) is going through a Revit transition right now, it just takes a large firm longer to transition to new software whether is is something as "simple" as a new Autocad release or changing to a package like Revit. Revit can even be more useful on larger projects because there is usually more repetition than on many smaller projects. There is much more setup and customization involved so it does have a learning/adoption curve that is steeper than many other programs. After 18 years of using Autocad (learned on and used Computervision for 2 years before that) I have pretty much quit using it in favor of Revit after only 8 months. It can definitely be frustrating, but can also make things much easier after you get some time with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upshot Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Revit can even be more useful on larger projects because there is usually more repetition than on many smaller projects. There is much more setup and customization involved so it does have a learning/adoption curve that is steeper than many other programs. After 18 years of using Autocad (learned on and used Computervision for 2 years before that) I have pretty much quit using it in favor of Revit after only 8 months. It can definitely be frustrating, but can also make things much easier after you get some time with it. I agree 100%. On the 'autodesk is not listening to us' subject my opinion is that they are more interested in hooking and reeling in newbs than supporting the old dawgs. Their whole business model revolves around a spiraling upgrade program that max-es (pun intended) the capitol outlay to 'stay in the autodesk club' (aka bow to the industry standard and pay up). Meanwhile the old dawgs keep beating the drum on features / issues that need to be addressed and the autodeathstar responds with something akin to 'want some candy?' (if you know what I mean). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Denby Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 If you're freelance and your work is mediocre, then you do need to worry and consider getting a job in house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxwj2006 Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 i have trialed max design 2009 with the mental ray feature... and i am afraid to say that i agree with the begging of the end. i work as a design draftsman in australia using revit architecture. i have not yet used revit 2009 however just be using revit architecture 2008 and the mental ray features of max design, it is apparent to me that quite good results are rediculously easy to come by and unfortunately to chaos group and the like , quite fast. im sure many people in the industry will be asking the question do i change back to the old slow mental ray or keep on the path of vray etc. the features of revit 2009 are surely to turn heads and it cannot be dismissed that cg art is becomming more and more easily produced and time efficient. and the question is that will cg high end art only be used for marketing at the very end stages. thus with the implementation of revit systems within the industry models will already be basically completed with small scale modelling to be composed within 3ds max. taking away more work from the artist and in turn more money. i surely think studios will be shutting down because i know from my work that alot of jobs are not even put to the client for high end art it is just the inhouse artist that gets to play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Interesting point, Especially if you are a Revit office but the visualisation is done with Vray. What impact will it have constantly coverting the mr materials that are brought using the FBX workflow. When using the DWG ling methode , at least themax materials were kept, but with FBX it is a straight import which has to be reimported everytime there is an update to the revit model. Will you have to reconvert the materials over and over again? jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Don't you end up with mr "Pro" (e.g. amateur) materials? I've tried those and trust me, you'll be changing them all to A&D materials anyway, so you might as well be changing to Vray materials if that's what you're good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Vray and me dont mix:D Tell the truth I havn't looked at the "Pro" materials yet, what wrong with them? jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 It's mental ray for dummies. Nowhere near the number of options you get on the A&D material, so there are a bunch of things I use - really good metal with tweaks, floors with glossiness and aniso mapped, etc - that you can't do. I like to layer on subtle things like that to add depth. They're not very "pro". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Interesting, of couse if Revit hasn't been optimised for your firm/ workflow then I suppose one would be resurfacing anyway. If you watch the autodest videos on the Revit to Max they clearly state that there are fewer settings in the "Pro" materials in Revit compared to Max. Scratch my head as to why jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moir Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 If you're freelance and your work is mediocre, then you do need to worry and consider getting a job in house. Ah, Ian, you've rumbled me! Did you come to this conclusion after visiting our office?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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