phix95 Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 like modeling from an autocad file, stairs, tables, etc, texturing and lighting..as in like one project, step by step. I looked at the Gnomon ones but they're more environmental modeling, not a specific room, or structure, like I want. I looked at 3dAS and 3d quakers and they don't fit either...for different reasons. I have modeled people but I'm not that experienced. I have 3ds 8 and Vray. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailyon Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 oooh, goodie! Anyone up to the challenge of creating this one? I would definitely jump on it...pay for it even!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNJ73 Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 The DVD(s) linked in this thread look to be something close to what you're looking for... don't know if they're actual tutorials, but they look to be full, ready-to-render scenes that you can take a look at and reverse-engineer. Personally, I prefer the reverse-engineering route to tutorials... it forces you to understand what's going on in the scene in your own words, and according to your own train of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 like modeling from an autocad file, stairs, tables, etc, texturing and lighting..as in like one project, step by step. I looked at the Gnomon ones but they're more environmental modeling, not a specific room, or structure, like I want. I looked at 3dAS and 3d quakers and they don't fit either...for different reasons. I have modeled people but I'm not that experienced. I have 3ds 8 and Vray. Thanks I doubt there's anything out there like that and there's a couple of problems that make just such a tutorial very, very hard to produce. The main problem is that in the course of building even the most simplistic scene, the typical efficient artist is going to click the mouse button tens of thousands of times...large scenes in the hundreds of thousands. Probably 99.9% of those clicks are going to be repetitive commands....so having a step by step tutorial of even a very tiny scene is bound to bore you to tears with repetition and is going to take far too many steps to put in something that can be printed. It will also take far too long to produce than I think anyone would be willing to spend. The only solution is to either skip a tremendous number of steps and focus on the most important ones, which of course is no longer the tutorial you want, or to setup your scene is an extremely efficient manner that completely minimizes the number of total steps and the number of times steps are repeated. Of course, doing this latter option is not entirely realistic as it no one would receive a project's drawings and data in a way that makes this abbreviated route possible. In the process of making our latest book, we had no choice but to have the reader work on small parts of a scene and correlate it to other similar objects. For example, one of the chapters on creating walls, windows, and doors contains over 120 individual steps and only covers the creation of one small portion of the building. There was absolutely no reason to repeat these 120 steps for all of the other parts of the building because it would be a complete waste of time. Another chapter of furniture creation contains 240 steps and only covers the creation of a single couch. In the case of the couch, every step of its creation was documented and very few steps were repetitive, but it was still only one piece of furniture. We're in the beginning stages of working with an individual that recently won a VisMasters animation of the month, in the hopes of turning his single project into a book documenting his work, step by step. But in reality, we can't possibly make it step by step or anything even close. If it comes to fruition, it will have to not repeat all the same procedures used over and over for similar objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phix95 Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 Oh yes, I agree, similar objects need not be repeated. One is fine. I just kind of want the basics of how to set up the file from autocad, how big the rooms should be (i'm no architect so I don't know; I just eyeball it), are things booleaned or cut some other way, how many segments should object x have, etc. Do you create boxes or use splines to build rooms? Like what are the most efficient methods? Like, 'set up a wall like so'...then I'd go on and do the others myself. I dont know wall thicknesses or basic couch proportions and stuff like that. I just guess. A section on texturing would be really good. And lighting, preferably w/Vray, though I know there are Vray dvds at gnomon. And have an actual room, not give an example of one and then say 'ok, now build your own totally different room;' have the finished example and say 'ok, this is what we're going to build'. I hope that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katkatemos Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Oh yes, I agree, similar objects need not be repeated. One is fine. I just kind of want the basics of how to set up the file from autocad, how big the rooms should be (i'm no architect so I don't know; I just eyeball it), are things booleaned or cut some other way, how many segments should object x have, etc. Do you create boxes or use splines to build rooms? Like what are the most efficient methods? Like, 'set up a wall like so'...then I'd go on and do the others myself. I dont know wall thicknesses or basic couch proportions and stuff like that. I just guess. A section on texturing would be really good. And lighting, preferably w/Vray, though I know there are Vray dvds at gnomon. And have an actual room, not give an example of one and then say 'ok, now build your own totally different room;' have the finished example and say 'ok, this is what we're going to build'. I hope that made sense. hi phix95. So, you are saying that you need a more comprehensive/ detailed/ elaborate tutorial about the basics in modeling/ rendering? Their are certain prerequisites in being a 3d modeler/ renderer. A degree in architecture perhaps, or maybe just an understanding of proportion. It is not something that could be achieved overnight or something that can be written step by step. It is achieved through years of practice/ experience or even a lifetime. Many individuals have different styles of working with the softwares, example: some would prefer a mouse, some tablet etc..., there's no ideal way of working with it. Efficiency and, of course, the final output itself are the only significant consideration when creating a project. My advise for you is to start studying architecture and the design details/ elements, do some research, read and practice, its a tedious job, but its worth it, if 3d rendering/ modeling is what you really want. You really have to do your part if you want this. And besides, it is impossible for one to spoon-feed all of those information for you since, as i have said, it is very tedious. And as you mentioned above about a room being given..., that would be a sample of a case study which will be helpful as soon as you understand the basics. Good luck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Sugden Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 As it happens, my company has been working hard on an in depth video tutorial for modeling a complete house, starting with an exterior elevation rendering, as the first part of the series. As this is a side project it's not our top priority at the moment, and I still need to decide how we will distribute the finished product, as it will be pretty big both in terms of file size, and duration. This will cover detailed ways of tackling each part of the arch vis basics and i will be supplying models of the each stage as it progresses. It will (ironically) be case studying a property i am actually building in real life. So as you can imagine i am quite busy! All I can say is watch this space. As soon as I get a gap in my day and night work load I'll be back on it to finish it. If there is anyone out there that may be interested in publishing it online I'd be glad to hear from you, as I think it will be a great product for people wishing to get into the arch viz community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Oh yes, I agree, similar objects need not be repeated. One is fine. I just kind of want the basics of how to set up the file from autocad, how big the rooms should be (i'm no architect so I don't know; I just eyeball it), are things booleaned or cut some other way, how many segments should object x have, etc. Do you create boxes or use splines to build rooms? Like what are the most efficient methods? Like, 'set up a wall like so'...then I'd go on and do the others myself. I dont know wall thicknesses or basic couch proportions and stuff like that. I just guess. A section on texturing would be really good. And lighting, preferably w/Vray, though I know there are Vray dvds at gnomon. And have an actual room, not give an example of one and then say 'ok, now build your own totally different room;' have the finished example and say 'ok, this is what we're going to build'. I hope that made sense. You can find tons of free tutorials about all of this on the Insider page. http://www.cgarchitect.com/upclose/VI/default.asp If you want a more thorough set of tutorials, including some good vray information, you can check out our latest book. http://3dats.com/products.asp There's a sample chapter on creating roofs if you want to see how the book is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailyon Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 I agree that such a detailed tutorial would be impossible to produce (and very exhausiting to execute). What I would like to see are some small tutorials pertaining to why you build the stairs this way or what to consider when modeling x in a house. I guess I would just like to see some theory...like "make your floor with 5 panels in a room where you intend to have a wood patterened floor and only 2 for carpet because..." I can do "click this button" but I would love to know a little more about why I am clicking this button or what is beneficial about clicking it at that particular time instead of later on in the process. I can suggest Brian's Fundamentals book (and I will let you know about the new beginner to intermediate, as I am ordering it) for the original poster as a foundation of max as it pertains to arch viz. Haven't had my coffee yet so my explanation above my not be too clear...I'll revisit and explain after my cup of joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 I agree that such a detailed tutorial would be impossible to produce (and very exhausiting to execute). What I would like to see are some small tutorials pertaining to why you build the stairs this way or what to consider when modeling x in a house. I guess I would just like to see some theory...like "make your floor with 5 panels in a room where you intend to have a wood patterened floor and only 2 for carpet because..." I can do "click this button" but I would love to know a little more about why I am clicking this button or what is beneficial about clicking it at that particular time instead of later on in the process. I can suggest Brian's Fundamentals book (and I will let you know about the new beginner to intermediate, as I am ordering it) for the original poster as a foundation of max as it pertains to arch viz. Haven't had my coffee yet so my explanation above my not be too clear...I'll revisit and explain after my cup of joe Thanks for the comment Kimberly...and i dont mean to change the subject of this thread, but I wouldn't recommend the Beginner to Intermediate book if you already have the Max 8 book. This time around it's full color and has about 20% new material, but it is still about 80% of the Max 8 book. The Intermediate to Advanced book would be more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailyon Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Brian- aren't there rules about pushing you products on un-suspecting forum posters? Actually your book has helped me to see that I may actually be able to do this arch viz thing. And I am so very glad that the next one is in full color! I'll prob buy it again just because of that and re-read it even though the content is mostly the same just to see the color picutres (I am easily amused,he). Thanks for letting me know and I will definitely order them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 I pre-ordered both, got the first one, and waiting for 2nd. Even though I know the tools and modeling techniques inside of Max, I got the first book mainly to get an experienced ArchViz person's point of view on the tools. I did learn quite a few things about some rollout options that were glossed over in other tutorials that I had done up to that point. They're great books and I encourage people to get them. * *The above is an unsolicited observation, and if I get any surprises in the mail from Brian it is purely a coincidence and has nothing to do with the above. Your milage may vary. Objects in mirrior are closer than they appear. All rights reserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phix95 Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 Well I do have 2 degrees actually, one in design and one in Game Art and Design. We modeled people mainly, but I did do a small room w/a table and some glasses, a bathtub, a knife...all by eyeballing. I did do some scenes in the Unreal engine itself.. I actually built a pagoda (not recommended btw...do it in max). We had an intro to architecture class, but I was going through a breakup at the time and was a basketcase, AND they were more history of architecture classes, not blueprinting or measurements. It would suck to have to add to my $29000 loan I have to pay back, plus I am 31 and only have a parttime job. I am just asking for help; I didn't know it would become this big ordeal. I wanted this tutorial to get a feel for modeling such things. I'd like to add these types of structures to my portfolio, besides the design and people models. Doesn't mean I'm an architect, but that I could possibly handle modeling such things for games, or house fly-throughs, whatever. In fact I don't want to be an architect; I want to model it. I have looked at those books Brian was talking about and the most recent one seems close to what I'm looking for but it's not out yet. The tut doesn't have to be an elaborate structure, just some things dealing w/modeling an architectural piece. I know it's somewhat different than modeling a person, which is more organic. I don't know how much clearer I can be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailyon Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 I am just asking for help; I didn't know it would become this big ordeal. The tut doesn't have to be an elaborate structure, just some things dealing w/modeling an architectural piece. I know it's somewhat different than modeling a person, which is more organic. I don't know how much clearer I can be... Don't let anyone bully you into thinking that you need an architecture degree to do this. I also have 2 degrees, neither in architecture, and do not want to be an architect. I think if you just apply your knowledge to what you want to do and read up on the lingo and processes then you should be fine. I was actually able to find a tut on building a house that used v-ray, it was 3 parts but only 2 parts had been released and I don't have v-ray... I will look for the link and post if I find it again. As for being clear and starting an ordeal...me thinks that the cg gurus here are just trying to lay out for you what is possible for you to find and what is not. Personally I never really thought about the possible intensity in such a tut before, I just got annoyed that I could find nothing yet there were people like the ones here turining out AMAZING work. All I really thought at first was "well, you would think that at least one of them could write it down,not too much to ask right?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phix95 Posted April 21, 2008 Author Share Posted April 21, 2008 Thank you kailyon. I don't believe you need to be an architect to model and render architecture. I will get that 3das book once it's out and yes, I'd love it if you could post a link to the tutorial you spoke of. I thought of taking one or two basic architecture classes (b/c they are expensive) which may help in understanding what I'm modeling. Any suggestions on which ones? History I would think; 'blueprint' reading...hmmm. Their modeling classes are in autocad, which is not what I want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I think a good imagination and some magazines or books along the lines of 'Better Homes' is important. I know someone (they use to come here until they got burned out on Arch) that is 100% self-taught and he's fantastic. I think we need to work both sides of our brains - technical and artistic. I have a bit of trouble with the artistic - I often need some reference images to inspire me. But $10 at the news agent and I have hundreds of nice photos of beautiful interiors... I also caught a local book shop with a sale and snapped up several hardback Architectural books for next to nothing. Nice slip case and (once again) hundreds of commercial photos - most with a floorplan of some sort. I was also given a DVD set of videos produced in Europe about some really beautiful and diverse architecture. French words, but English voice-overs, and it's all buildings. They cover some famous buildings, and some not-so-famous (at least internationally). I've watched those a few times when I had the flu and was home sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailyon Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Danielle- Here is a link to the first tut http://www.3dsmaxresources.com/tutorials/house-creation-basic-building-blocks.html the second http://www.3dsmaxresources.com/tutorials/house-creation-exterior-modeling.html the third and final http://www.3dsmaxresources.com/tutorials/house-creation-rendering.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phix95 Posted April 21, 2008 Author Share Posted April 21, 2008 That is one I've tried. Since he didn't provide what floorplans he used (as usual!) I found one but it had no side view so I had to stop w/it. It took so long and then I scrapped it. Always happens. Somthing gets f***ed up and I have to move on. It's so frustrating! Aren't autocad files easier to trace? Don't your splines just snap to the AC lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nymn Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I would also have to recommend the 3DATS books that Brian Smith wrote for this because they approach Max from the architecture mentality specifically... It has "getting started" sections that pretty much walk you through the workflow that you will encounter when using Max in this field... not to mention it covers all the basic tools that you WILL need to use, and skips the ones you really wont utilize. I have read the Max 9 version of his book cover to cover, and still reference it alot. And you're just not going to find that many other books on modeling specifically for architecture using a CAD workflow like you mentioned... another book worth mentioning is Digital Lighting & Rendering http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Lighting-Rendering-2nd-digital/dp/0321316312/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208846776&sr=8-1 its another book that i read cover to cover and, while its not a step by step.. it breaks down the theory behind it extremely well, which will help you understand how all of these advanced lighting & rendering techniques work, how they differ, and how to apply them effectively... there are alot of skilled modelers out there, but if you cant use lighting to youre advantage then even great models look like crap especially in the ArchViz stuff. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron-cds Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 It would suck to have to add to my $29000 loan I have to pay back, plus I am 31 and only have a parttime job. I am just asking for help; I didn't know it would become this big ordeal. I wanted this tutorial to get a feel for modeling such things. I'd like to add these types of structures to my portfolio, besides the design and people models. Doesn't mean I'm an architect, but that I could possibly handle modeling such things for games, or house fly-throughs, whatever. In fact I don't want to be an architect; I want to model it. It sounds like you just need to learn how to read architectural drawings in order to translate that information into a model. Find a community college that has an architecture program and sign up for a few classes that will expose you to the knowledge you need. College of DuPage has an architecture program. Illinois Central College in East Peoria has one too. I'm not sure where you are in Illinois. Another good resource would be the student version of the Architectural Graphic Standards. It's a fairly inexpensive book that has common details and dimmensions for tons of stuff. As for not knowing how big a couch is, just look at any furniture catalog (Crate & Barrell, Pottery Barn, Restoration Hardware, Design Within Reach). They always have the dimensions for the furniture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The 2nd book (Intermediate to Advanced) will cover architectural drawings in great depth. That's one of the many things I'm looking forward to. (his thoughts on Mental Ray lighting (specifically photometric lights) is another) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phix95 Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 Thanks guys. Yes I am looking at COD; maybe the intro and blueprint reading? Though maybe a book would suffice...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron-cds Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Thanks guys. Yes I am looking at COD; maybe the intro and blueprint reading? Though maybe a book would suffice...? I would start with a book or two. A great place to find something is Prairie Avenue Book Store on Wabash Avenue in the south loop. Almost any architecture book can be found there. They have a huge table that you could spend hours browsing their expensive books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phix95 Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 Expensive...hmmm... I found these on Amazon. I looked at my bookstore and the ones I found there usually didn't have side plan views so I have no idea how tall anything was. Anyway, what do you think of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/4770030460/ref=reg_hu-wl_item-added http://www.amazon.com/Dan-Saters-Mediterranean-Home-Plans/dp/193255310X/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=IPOJ8HC5UKS32&colid=3IBR5VM8TCQZS http://www.amazon.com/Details-Contemporary-Architecture-Christine-Killory/dp/1568985762/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I202HLUL1993TP&colid=3IBR5VM8TCQZS http://www.amazon.com/Detail-Contemporary-Residential-Architecture-CD-ROM/dp/1856694828/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3VCYSGUX7WQXG&colid=3IBR5VM8TCQZS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailyon Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Interior tutorial http://www.enjoycg.com/forums/enjoycg-tutorials/959-architectural-vizualization-project.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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