Autodesk - 3d Max - price ripoff

[Shane Gee]

I was reading the Adobe price difference thread, thought I would add to that.

 

I have moved to South africa from the UK, busy trying to set up a Viz company here.

 

The price of 3d max is

R52710.00 per licence

At current exchange rates of 1 USD = 7.79177 ZAR

= $6765.49

 

And in the US

 

$3,495.00 per licence

At current exchange rates of 1 USD = 7.79177 ZAR

=R27232.24

 

A difference of

R25477.76 each more expensive

Multiplied by 3 licences

 

= R76433. 28 Difference!!! 0r

= $9811.71 Money wasted.

 

Now I want to do things correctly. but I cannot compete here locally where 90% of local users are using the software illegally.

 

 

I have emailed Autodesk and I am waiting for a response. Will let you know

[SandmanNinja]

I have a feeling it's like the Region coding for movies and t.v. shows.

It's based on your country/region and that really doesn't seem fair.

Not sure why you can't buy it from the States and have it shipped in, but then you'd have to pay stamp duty when it hits your border!

 

Downloading options seem to circumvent tarrifs and stamp duties, but I don't think that's an option for 3DS.

[PAWUK]

Not sure why you can't buy it from the States and have it shipped in,

 

Been down that deadend , they say if you did buy any of there products max autocad etc from the US and got it shipped over then it wouldnt be supported or legal!!!!

[Shane Gee]

Import duties here are 20% but computer and software products exempt, only 14% VAT is applicable. I don't mind paying the VAT.

[AJLynn]

This again? It's the exchange rate. The dollar is weak, it looks like we're paying less and you're paying more, but that's not true.

[Chad Warner]

I don't think that $3000 difference in price can account for the weak dollar.

[AJLynn]

That, and it was more expensive to start with, though not shockingly so.

[Shane Gee]

Its not the exchange rate , If I take the average Rand/Dollar exchange rate for the last 15years

1USD = 7 ZAR not much difference at the moment

 

Also South Africa is an emerging market who's economy is supported by the US economy, so when the US currency weakens the South African economy weakens even more.

 

So at the current rate the extra cost is

$9811

And when it is calculated at is average the extra cost is

$10919

 

We are still being ripped off!!

[Koper]

and what if you run your company from the UK as an international bussiness, won't you then be able to get it from the uk and use it in sunny SA? just a thought

 

where in SA are you? and what inspired you to go there? probably one of our many fine woman:D

g'luck

[bjornkn]

This again? It's the exchange rate. The dollar is weak, it looks like we're paying less and you're paying more, but that's not true.

I think you may misunderstand the way exchange rates works?

When the US$ is weak, like now, it should mean that our prices on goods originating from the USA should have better prices, and not worse. The opposite is the case. The same thing is even the case for software originating in Europe - they are usually much cheaper to buy in the US. If C4D Studio bundle should cost the same in USA as in the UK it would cost $5000 (£2500) instead of the actual price of $3500 directly from Maxon.net.

Max is one of those programs that is very hard to find out the price for here, like a lot a lot of other expensive programs, without requesting a "quote", but I'm sure it costs at least as much as in South Africa.

I agree that using pirated software is unethical, but so is this kind of rip-off non-US prices used by Adobe, Autodesk, Maxon and others.

Luckily there are good alternatives to Max, Maya and Cinema with less unethical/cynical rip-off pricing

 

I wonder what the prices for 3dS Max, Photoshop etc are in countries like China and India, with lower costs of living? Are they lower or higher than in the US?

[Brian Smith]

I tend to agree with the belief that there is a ridiculous disparity between U.S. prices and prices abroad...and there should be some official explanation. I wonder at times if Autodesk secretly wants other nations to pirate. If they offered the software at lower prices than what U.S. users can purchase it for, then of course we'd be upset. By forcing users abroad to pirate, maybe it helps secure 3ds Max as the defacto standard overseas, which can only help secure it as the standard domestically where the bulk of sales are going to come from anyway, regardless of what prices are set overseas.

 

Or maybe I'm just off my rocker.

[Matt Clementson]

I know one of the 'excuses' software companies have used when I've asked this before is the need for the localisation of software and manuals in non-US countries - but how many of us actually use a non-English version of 3dsmax anyway? or Photoshop? or, etc, etc...

 

The other is that shipping charges are higher in Europe - but then shouldn't downloadable versions be at the same price?

[AJLynn]

I think you may misunderstand the way exchange rates works?

When the US$ is weak, like now, it should mean that our prices on goods originating from the USA should have better prices, and not worse.

 

That's not what I mean at all. The software is sold in each country in that country's currency. If the USD rises relative to that other country, the price in that country does not rise in that other currency, and if the USD falls, the price in the other currency does not fall. The software companies usually peg their prices in each currency instead of dollars, probably as part of their desire to make the prices predictable by corporations which love predictable prices.

 

The price of US software overseas seems particularly high now, in most countries, because people keep comparing to the USD price, which doesn't work.

 

E.g., when a lot of these companies set their Euro prices it was about 1:1. So you take a $1000 American product, add a bit of markup, sell it for 1100 EU, nobody's complaining. Several years later, it's $1.50 per Euro, neither the EU or USD prices have changed, but the Europeans are complaining because they're paying $1650. They want the price pegged in USD, not EU.

 

But we've been through all this before, with other business models. If prices of American software starting dropping just because the USD drops, European software makers will be complaining about anticompetitive business practices. If the prices were pegged in USD and the USD rose 50% relative to the Euro instead of the other way around, and the software company told the European customers the price was going up to 1650 EU because the EU is weak, there would be riots. You can't win. Better to just set the price the market will accept and stick with it.

[Nic H]

Bugger them and buy it internationally, what have you got to lose? support?

 

You are still buying it legitimately, just using it in a different location, I cant believe that it would be illegal to use paid for software no matter where you are.

 

I cant see the logic in paying that much more, its ridiculous. I would not waste your money. No wonder pirated software is rampant, the unexplained price disparity encourages it.

[TheAllusionisst]

This isn't my area of expertise, but it would seem to me that they haven't set the price that the market would bear, hence the prolific use of pirated software. But if you can squeeze the life out of enough paying customers with your prices and support your company, then all the illegal users out there help establish your software as the industry standard

 

But it is a fact of life, and not limited to software, cars and all else can be outrageously expensive in other countries, just can't pirate a car, take it for a joy ride maybe, but you are more likely to get caught......

 

So you take a third world country where the yearly income is $10,000 a year and you take a software program ($3,000.00US) that is already expensive by US standards and you charge the equivalent of $5,000.00 to the locals of that third world country, do you think they are going to pay half a years salary for that software? Of course you could argue that they wouldn't pay the $3,000.00, but I personally could be upset with them then, kind of hard for me to feel upset when it is wrongly marked up. But hey the software companies 'Board of Investors' that run the show are happy, they have some paying stooges to supoort them

 

Not a rant or finger pointing on my part, just my perspective, should be the straight exchange rate, of course we can't do anything about the guy at the boarder charging rediculous tarrifs.

[bjornkn]

I think the "magic words" here are to "set the price the market will accept", which is what a lot of those companies apparently do, to the full.

But how can we, the market, tell them that we won't accept it? These days there is a lot of monopolization going on, with a few big companies like Autodesk and Adobe that are buying (and sometimes killing) the competition, which leaves us with few choices to show that we won't accept it. With all the webshops and forums around it is now much easier to follow prices in different countries, which makes it so much more annoying to be ripped off all the time, particularly when we pay so much more for downloading exactly the same files. It's more obvious now when the dollar is so low, but the trend has always been the same as long as I've been in this business - low sw prices in USA and high in Europe.

Never, ever have I seen a software being sold cheaper in Norway/Europe than in the USA. A European company like Realviz are at moment selling their ImageModeler program (downloadable) for €750/$880/£515/¥120000, which means that translated to US$ you pay roughly $1200/$880/$1030/$1150. So this is actually more expensive in its country of origin than in other countries. The price seems to be the same if you buy the boxed or downloadable version!? I'm not sure if you can choose your own currency there now though, because I wouldn't go that far in the ordering process. I bought this program (+ some others from Realviz) some years ago from Toolfarm, US (which now sells IM for $807 BTW (boxed?)) because at the time Realviz were charging 1$=1€ even though the exchange rate was about 6:8 at the time. There was a lot of mail going back and forth then, because Realviz wanted to charge me the European prices. End of story was that I ended up paying what I ordered it for in US$. On a direct question about why they were charging som much more in Europe they told me that the US customers wouldn't accept such high prices.

Please, you US customers, tell us how we can convince those gready software companies that we are not willing to be ripped off here either?

What did you do to convince them??

You mentioned riots - maybe that's the way to go?

[PAWUK]

 

What did you do to convince them??

You mentioned riots - maybe that's the way to go?

 

Hey....what about making it the next 3d challenge ...the Autodesk head office in flames....with a riot of many nations....no!..ok I'll get my coat.

[vizwhiz]

maybe This is a golden opportunity for someone To start a CG import/export business as an multi-national Company

 

??

 

or maybe we could all change our Names 'legally' To The same NAME

and Then Ottodisk wouldnt know The difference between who is where

 

and how many copies That you are using

 

??

 

not sure if That last comment made any sense (but its only monday (pm))

does anyone run an 'international' network rendering setup? where you could

 

an US postal address but still work 'off-shore'

 

??

[bjornkn]

There are already companies that can "help", like http://www.jetcarrier.com/

that allows you to get a US shipping address when you order goods in US that is not available at the same good price if you happen to live outside US.

It doesn't help you much though when you want to buy a downloadable version or upgrade...

But according to Autodesk the license isn't legal anyway outside of USA if bought there? No wonder there are som many Max pirates out there/here.

At Adobe, at least, if you can manage to buy Photoshop at a US price apparently it's still legal for use outside US, you just will get no support.

But then Adobe charges more than twice the US price if bought elsewhere.

 

And yes, making "Riot against all greedy software companies' unfair pricing" a 3d challenge would be a great idea !

With Autodesk as sponsors maybe?

[bjornkn]

Are those SA prices for Max Standalone or Network licenses?

FYI the current Max price here in Norway is US$6780 for SLM (standalone)

and US$8500 for NLM. And then we have to add 25% VAT to that! Had to ask for a quote to get the prices.

 

What is actually the difference between those two licenses?

[foxlee]

"Now I want to do things correctly. but I cannot compete here locally where 90% of local users are using the software illegally."

So where would you get that sort of information?

[creasia]

I am pleased that the competitive upgrade to Cinema 4d is under $800 and that I can get Vray4Cinema4D for $1200 US I intend to switch as soon as I can.

[Antisthenes]

how about Rhinoceros what is the price comparable to ZA money?

 

if a student in usa pays 150$...

 

tia

[Shane Gee]

Have have contacted many users and companies here in South Africa.

 

Most that I have contacted don't have a legal copy of 3d max. Some have 1 legit version in their office but are using illegal copies on all their other machines. Some guys have bought a copy but are using illegal versions for the updated versions.

Some architectural practices I have contacted, a lot have an illegal copy of Max, sketchup and vray.

 

 

 

With the redundancy of Viz and the price hike to continue on Max, I cannot see piracy improving, now that you have to buy the full expensive max version.

 

So my comment of 90% is not based on an official survey, but what I have seen.

The BSA says that South Africa has general piracy rate of 36%- So I probably am off on the 90%, but I am sure that Piracy of the expensive 3d max is higher that general software like office and windows.

 

I wonder if there could be some anonymous international poll, to see what people are using and where the higher levels of piracy are.

 

I am sure the low prices of China, India, south America, and maybe even little South Africa are affecting you guys.

And how do these guys keep there prices low? Not just low cost of living?

 

I don't mind paying $3000 or even $10000 a licence, as long as everyone has to pay it. The cost will then reflect in what we charge the client, and it will be fair for all.

[foxlee]

I think there is a lot of work around in South Africa, but definitely not international work.

So I am not so sure that the local guys are competition in the global market at all.

I think South Africa is well situated for work and international development in Africa.

The Max price used to be closer to the international price , check with different resellers.

The cost of living here has been spiralling this last year, so soon enough everyone will have to charge more.

Good luck ,which centre are you moving to?