$$ Charge for Render Time?

[danb4026]

Can anyone tell me what you would charge for rendering time for a project? I am not using a render farm, simply my own machine for static scene rendering.

 

One client insists on high res images (min 11 x 17 @ 200dpi) which can take quite some time to render. I don't know if I should be charging my normal rate for that time or a fraction there of.

 

Advice?

[shaneis]

In my opinion, it's a bit cheeky to charge by the hour for rendering on a single machine purely because of the differences in performance - $X/hour on a P3 vs Dual Xeon for example. It's also very hard to formulate a pricing scale against CPU hours. My advice would be to create your own pricing scale based on image size/ resolution and tier those prices according to rendering methods. For example, (excuse the algebra)...

 

A4 = $X

A3 = 2($X)

Scanline = price*1

Simple FG = price*3

 

Insert your own multiples as you see fit. Benefit of this type of pricing for freelancers is a) your clients know what costs to expect, b) it's easy for you to quote a job, c) when you get a couple of render nodes, you can complete jobs in less time for the same money - or pass some of the savings on to your regular clients, d) lots of other stuff.

 

Hourly rendering fees usually apply more to render farm time where overheads are significant and directly related to CPU hours (power, support, priority etc).

Edited May 6, 2008 by shaneis

[Limbus]

I look at what online renderfarms charge for rendering. That way I know that i can outsource the rendering and not loose money.

 

Cheers, Florian

[JamesTaylor]

i think charging for rendering is the wrong way to go... i presume you have provided a price for producing the image, rendering is a part of that process and as such your quote should have already included the time you will have to put aside for it.

 

you are always going to encounter problems trying to put a price on the value of cpu rendering, as already stated the speed of the machine, at what time of day is the machine rendering?? over night, well i would presume your not working then so its a pretty minor consequence to you as opposed to during the day when you need the machine available to be earning your hrs wage... can you be doing something else whilst the machine is rendering etc. are you out of the office? is it at a weekend??

 

i feel that machines for rendering are a tool a visualiser needs and therefore is a cost that needs to be absorbed in your quotes in much the same way a carpenter need a plain or a saw.

[Limbus]

i think charging for rendering is the wrong way to go... i presume you have provided a price for producing the image, rendering is a part of that process and as such your quote should have already included the time you will have to put aside for it.

 

If you put rendering cost in your quote for the job it is easyer to tell the client that changes after rendering will cost money.

 

you are always going to encounter problems trying to put a price on the value of cpu rendering, as already stated the speed of the machine, at what time of day is the machine rendering?? over night, well i would presume your not working then so its a pretty minor consequence to you as opposed to during the day when you need the machine available to be earning your hrs wage...

Even if you render at night you still have costs associated with rendering: power, administration, checking the results etc... If you run a dedicated renderfarm these costs will only get higher. So I dont think it is a good idea to not charge less for rendering just because you render at night.

 

Florian

[JamesTaylor]

 

Even if you render at night you still have costs associated with rendering: power, administration, checking the results etc... If you run a dedicated renderfarm these costs will only get higher. So I dont think it is a good idea to not charge less for rendering just because you render at night.

 

Florian

 

Limbus you are right that there are still costs involved with running a render farm such as power, admin, depreciation etc. but these costs are minor in comparision to having your workstation out of action during working hrs which is what danb4026 seems to be impling.

 

I would also still feel that running a render farm for rendering your own projects is a tooled required to be operational and its usage should once again still be part the price quoted.

[lyca]

I always do my quotes in 2 parts, modeling, texturing, lighting and

renderings priced separately by resolution. so for example

- first rendering at 1000x800px cost xx€

each other rendering from the same scene = 0.5(xx€) for same resolution

 

so it's clear for the client that if he ask for more images he will have to pay supplements, before i was loosing to much time and money with client asking me to render an other view for free.

[danb4026]

well, here is a scenario that I am referring to:

 

The night before my rendering was to shown to the client, the designer changed many of the materials and lighting. I had to work thru the night to get the model, material and lighting done. The meeting was to be at 1pm, so I had get everything done and then allow time for the final render. I started the render by 10am and it took 3 hours to render and was finished at 12:55pm! Just made it in time.

 

At a subsequent meeting the designer wanted 2 new cameral views. The modeling stayed the same but I had to add 2 cameras, set up the views and have them render. Each render took 3 hours. I would think that I should have some set fee for the specific resolution needed. I have no idea how much that fee should be.

 

Furhtermore, while rendering is happening, I cannot do any real work related to my 3D business because the computer is occupied. I do not have a renderfarm.

 

I am thinking about buying a machine just to render. But render farms are alot of money. I would certainly take any recommendations as to that idea.

[lyca]

ohh, i understand your frustration, but i can tell you i had the same situation many times, that's why i thought about it and came out with my solutions that works for me. you have to think about all this situation in the beginning of your planning to not be surprised at the end.

when i do a quote it is very important to put some things clearly

 

1. how many views does the client want ?

2. what if in middle of project he ask for some more views ?

 

than i fix a workflow

1. get the auto-cad plan and build the model

2. get a meeting with the client to talk about the materials

3. after texturing i send him a draft render to approve the camera view and textures.

4. than i do the render for the final image.

 

if the client want some changes after this, it's ok for minor changes, but if he change everything and add 2 other views, i will have to charge him for this and he will accept, because in my quote i wrote clearly how much it will cost if he wants more views from the scene

 

for the render Farm it's a question to know if you going to have enough business or not, but a second computer is the minimum to have if you are going to be a professional, you know even my little brother has 2 computers for playing games

[AJLynn]

Why not wrap in render time in your contract fee? Allow for it in overhead in the fee, then put in provisions for extra charges for things like extra views and design changes. If they want a high res that's an additional fee as well.

 

I just think it makes more sense to charge for specific deliverables than for render time, since render time is means and methods and it's your business, not the client's.

[lyca]

Why not wrap in render time in your contract fee? Allow for it in overhead in the fee, then put in provisions for extra charges for things like extra views and design changes. If they want a high res that's an additional fee as well.

 

I just think it makes more sense to charge for specific deliverables than for render time, since render time is means and methods and it's your business, not the client's.

 

yeh, i argree with this

[gfa2]

Daniel, you should check out Respower.com or Rebusfarm.com. There are others too. You can use these services in a pinch and get very fast turn around time...and still be able to work on your computer.

 

Of course buying a 2nd computer would be very beneficial, but in the meantime you can set max to render at low priority and then you can open another session of max and work on another project. Neither session will be running at full capacity, but it's better than nothing.

[Justin Hunt]

Surely if they ask for additional views then you charge them accordingly, the cost of the other views LESS the modeling component.

 

Sure you have everything setup but there is still time needed to set up the new views, additional modeling / lighting tweeks, rendering and dont forget post production ect.

 

So whilst you cant directly charge for rendering time you can charge for the rest.

 

Animations are a different story, you should charge for rendering time

 

jhv

[Adrian Bold]

Rendering 'time' is part of business, it needs to be absorbed as part of operational cost. Our render farm is on most nights and spread between jobs, so it wouldn't even make sense to charge the client for the time it takes to actually render; just the man-hours involved in modelling/texturing, prep and post if required.

 

Charging per image rendered seems commonplace, regardless of the time it takes to actually render. I guess this covers additional manhour time to cover things like postwork.

 

Charging by the scene upfront (regardless of image quantity) is another method used and allows for client flexibility to pick and add angles later, and keeps your mind open to this fact. This approach needs to be managed properly to make a return but can provide cost-benefits to both you and the client on mass.