Copyrights, portfolio rights, bragging rights?

[senrikyu]

Hey all,

 

I have a dilemma: my company has done a number of projects for both advertising firms representing real estate developers and architects. One of my clients in particular, an ad firm, started positioning itself as a leader in VR Tours locally. Basically, my relationship with them has been that they do the websites and ad campaigns, and I do all 3D animations. In return for giving me the work, I have always given them a 15% commission.

 

Recently, they came out with a new website for their firm and put VR Tours in both the Service and Portfolio sections of the site. As you may have guessed, they put all the animation work we did for them in those sections without giving us credit.

 

Since our contracts say that we own the copyrights and portfolio rights, this was clearly a violation of the contract. After telling them that, they proposed adding tag-lines that say the work was developed by both companies. Again, I don't like that solution. I'm willing to allow them to show the work, but all they have to do is give my company credit for creating the animations. They won't budge, so now I'm getting the lawyers involved. At $200 an hour, this could get expensive.

 

Thoughts? What would the rest of your 3D visualizers do? Thanks in advance for your ideas.

 

~Chris

Edited May 6, 2008 by senrikyu
spelling

[blowback]

man, I wish I was getting $200/hr....

 

So I guess this is the end of the working relationship. It seems silly that the lawyers have to get involved ... I take it this has been something in the works for a while?

[Arnold Sher]

this is a tricky one. We've been down this road several times. A good comparison would be bying a car (say VW) and then telling everyone you've made it! Our contract states that a client cannot exhibit any of our work in any websites or printed media without our permssion. I think it is rather cheaky to just assume that it is okay. If you own the rights to your own work this should not be an issue, however i understand that copyright laws in USA are rather complex and even though you've produced the work it does not automatically mean that you own it. Thankfully in SA it is much more simple and having gone through the same motions previously we do retain rights over everything we produce. Best of luck and this is just my 2 cents worth....

[senrikyu]

Well, here's the thing: I actually used a "standard" contract that says that my company retains copyrights and the right to display it in our portfolio. In theory, this is a non-issue. The problem arises when the client (in this case an ad agency) abuses that. What do you do then? Do you pay out a lot of money to a law firm to take it to trial, or do you just let yourself get screwed? Just because it's clearly stated in the contract, doesn't mean you just snap your fingers and the abusing party stops using your work.

 

This is actually the FOURTH time that this issue has arisen- the other three incidents involving sub-contractors. Even though we do most of the work in my firm, I do occasionally send some parts of the projects to sub-contractors. Even though they sign NDA/non-competes, that doesn't stop them from claiming credit.

 

For instance, I used a CAD company in India to do some of my geometry and interactive work and found out over a year later that they had posted the project on their new website without telling me. Another time, I posted a position on a job board and received a portfolio with one of my current- and unfinished- projects in it! It turns out that the overseas 3D sub-contractors I was using had sent him some draft animations as examples and he had gone ahead and put them in his own portfolio!! ("Just a misunderstanding and it will never happen again.") It gets worse: a year later, the same guy responded to another posting and the same piece was still in his portfolio.

 

More letters to lawyers, threats, blah, blah, blah.

 

Is it just me, or is this a rampant problem in the industry? And don't get me wrong- I don't mind people showing the work if they: A. ask our permission first, and B. document what role they played in the creation of the piece.

Edited May 6, 2008 by senrikyu
Added text, spelling

[JamesTaylor]

that sounds as if it sucks....

 

i presume your company has a website?? If so why not add an extra couple of pages to the services and portfolio section which includes every piece of work / service that the ad firm has completed with you or offers. You can claim 100% credit for the entire projects that have been completed and then just let the ad firm know you have updated your website to include additional services and projects.... wait for their call of displeasure and have a little chuckle to yourself!!

 

it may be a cheaper alternative to a lawyer for getting your point across, and if not you may drum up some additional work that could be sub contracted out to one of their competitors!!

[senrikyu]

Hi James,

 

Not a bad idea, but hope it doesn't come to that. I actually do have the work on my company's website, but for now I'm taking the high road and just claiming respponsibility for what we did. Still interested in knowing if other people have had similar experiences.

 

~CAE

[BrianKitts]

personally if I were still doing freelance, for me it would come down to if I was losing money or not over it. If not, than the whole shared recognition sounds fine to me. It's the trade off you take for them drawing in the business for you. The biggest precaution i would warn on is to not be transparent to the client.

 

If this ad agency is tossing you jobs, then you need to be the one handling the billing and contracts then you can give them their cut...... not they bill and pay you out. This is important for two reasons, the biggest being the ad company can't cheat you and start charging more for your work, taking a bigger cut and paying you the same. And by doing it this way the actual client knows of your existence and works directly with you. I worked a project where I was transparent, the client wasn't happy with my work, I later found out the ad agency was doing a poor job of passing on their requests and changes for my imagery and they lost the project. Luckily they felt bad and still paid the $5000 in invoices they had accumulated, but that is not a typical case, and I won't make that mistake again cause I probably won't be so lucky next time.

 

Good work draws attention and as long as the client knows who really did it..... then your work will work in your favor. You need evaluate what's going to cost you more, going after the people who give you work with attorneys and losing them as a job source as well as having to pay legal fees, or giving them a 15% cut anytime they throw you a job.

Edited May 6, 2008 by BrianKitts

[ikinman]

Based on what you said, it's all pretty simple - you're right and they're wrong. The creator of a rendering (for now) owns the copyright unless you have signed away that right. You don't even need to have 'I own the copyright' in your contract. You just need not to put 'You own the copyright' in your contract.

 

That all being said, the situation is also pretty simple. They're violating the contract (though they may not be aware of how copyright law works - most aren't), and that's that. It's the same as if they refuse to pay you your entire fee. So what are you going to do about it? Well, in most cases it rarely pays to do anything about it. If your client is making a bunch of money off of your copyright, say by selling copies of your work on posters and the like, than a legal approach may be warranted. But in most cases it wont pay, and you'll lose the client. Typically a letter informing them of the situation is warranted, and because in many if not most cases people are generally decent and civil folk, that often will do the trick.

 

If they refuse, and you want to keep them as a client, then you should rethink your next contract. Let them know verbally the copyright situation, not just in your contract (which too many clients don't read anyway.) And raise your fees, and tell them why. If they are showing your work as their own, then presumably they like it enough to want more, so that gives you some leverage. Just don't sign away your copyright in the next proposal, unless you get specific extra bucks for it.

 

And if this sort of thing happens a lot, then consider registering the copyright on your works. It doesn't protect you any more, but it gives you the option of winning a much larger settlement in a court case, which means that a lawyer would actually take on your case. You can't get much out of a legal settlement for an unregistered copyright, so lawyers won't often take up that case.

 

But unless the stakes are high, legal options are almost never worth it. It comes down to how much you want to piss them off. There are a million clever and non-legal ways to do that, but you need to know your client and how badly you want their fees. We are in a service industry and it always comes down to how much we are willing to do for money.

 

-Ian

[jaker]

We also have done this type of work a great deal. we have had agencies win awards with our work. As far as I'm concerned I really don't mind white labeling of my firms work as long as they keep signing contracts and send me $$$$. If this client is willing to give you dual recognition whats the problem......potential biz with no relationship to them will no doubt search you & contact you to cut out the middleman and biz with a relationship to the agency will come through them...... and still may do a loop on them.

 

In this economic state along with the drastic increase in competition within our vertical I wouldn't bite the hand so to speak. Take the work, say thank you and continue to reap the reward($).

 

my 2 cents

[rogue3d]

This same thing happened to me. A firm I was contracted by put my work on their site and clamied they did it. They changed their services to say that they provide 3d rendering and animation. They have in house people, but they are not very good and even now since this has happened they come back to me when they are up against a wall.

 

In my situation things worked out for me when they got a taste of their own medicine. It turns out that I unknowingly pitched my work to another firm. When they reviewed my portfolio, they noticed I had an image that they designed. They asked me where I got it, I explined that I do freelance on the side and that I was hired to create this image. Now they know who they hired to do the 3d work (not me) so they knew the firm they hired essentially lied to them. they in-turn stopped working with the firm that had contracted me.

 

A few days later I get a call from the firm I was contracted by claiming we can no longer work together because my portfolio and theirs was too similar (another way to put is that their portfolio is MY portfolio, but whatever). they lost a client and I gained a job. I did lose them as a frequent client, but like I said, they still need me because their in house talent, is light in the talent department.

 

In the end as someone previously mentioned, if your not losing money by their actions, is it worth spending money to defend yourself? they need you to do the work, if you stop working with them, then they are stuck. I'd say keep that $200 an hour and put it towards finding a new client.

[AJLynn]

I agree - I don't think there's much to be gained by fighting them on this, and there's more to be gained in the potential for increased business.

 

Isn't this just part of the nature of consultants, contractors and subs?

[senrikyu]

Well, it gets worse. The last time I bid with this ad firm, they came back and claimed that they had found another company that was willing to do the project for 25% of what I bid, at in 1/4th the time I quoted. The could have been bluffing, but the bottom line is that I did not get the project. So, here they are using my company's work and claiming they did it, and then not even passing the work on to us! (Unless I bid it at negative profit margins!) How fair is that?! Of course, you get what you pay for, and they could come running back to us begging us to take more projects. However, without that assurance, our work in their portfolio is a hard (if not impossible) pill to swallow.