Animation - using a saved IR map only?

[Claudio Branch]

I have done a few V-Ray animation tests using only a saved IR map and not saving the LC map first. Some of these have turned out flicker free and it seems to be partially dependant on the materials' glossy reflection settings.

 

Is it always advisable to save the LC map?

[gfa2]

I'm pretty sure that when you do a precalc of IR and LC the LC solution gets burned into the IR solution. So there is no need to save and reload the LC. Seems weird, but I'm pretty sure this is correct. Sounds like it is working for you too.

 

I've found flickering to mostly come from glossies and AA settings. So lower subdivisions in your glossies will cause flicker. Sounds like you doing good with the settings. What is your material subdivision settings for reflections?

[Claudio Branch]

I'm pretty sure that when you do a precalc of IR and LC the LC solution gets burned into the IR solution. So there is no need to save and reload the LC. Seems weird, but I'm pretty sure this is correct. Sounds like it is working for you too.

 

I've found flickering to mostly come from glossies and AA settings. So lower subdivisions in your glossies will cause flicker. Sounds like you doing good with the settings. What is your material subdivision settings for reflections?

 

I thought that it could be done this way, but...

 

I started learning from Brian Smith and Christopher Nichols a little while before V-Ray 1.5 SP 2 came out. I have been using it steadily and just trying to wade through what I know from the tuts and the subtle differences between the old and new engine.

 

I am using the "Multiframe Incremental Mode" for now.

 

Brian seems to favor IR+LC while Christopher goes with IR+QMC. Brian has the extra pass for the LC and Christopher teaches you to "merge" separate IR maps. I also favor Brian's color mapping (Reinhard) over Chris's (Exponential).

 

I am still trying to come to terms with the whole gamma thing...especially with my HDR's....

 

Oh yeah, my sub-d's for the glossy reflections are at 20. Go higher?

Edited May 7, 2008 by Claudio Branch

[Claudio Branch]

I'm pretty sure that when you do a precalc of IR and LC the LC solution gets burned into the IR solution. So there is no need to save and reload the LC.

 

I ramped up the glossy reflection sub-d's to 40, turned on Sub-pixel mapping and Clamp output in my Color Mapping and the flicker is completely gone.

 

My render times are pretty high now though. Every surface in the scene is highly polished stainless steel (see image below), so there is alot of reflecting going on. The flicker was only occuring in the pure white specular areas, not the shadows.

 

So is saving out the LC map prior to the IR map an approach that was needed before version 1.50 SP2 came out?

[gfa2]

The flicker was only occuring in the pure white specular areas, not the shadows.

 

That's definetly always been a problem...and what you did is the correct solution.

 

My render times are pretty high now though. Every surface in the scene is highly polished stainless steel (see image below), so there is alot of reflecting going on.

 

That's kind of the cost of glossy reflections. If it were a still image I'd say you could lower the sub'd or even use interpolation, but you really don't want to do either of those for an animation. So what kind of render times are you looking at? What is the image resolution?

 

So is saving out the LC map prior to the IR map an approach that was needed before version 1.50 SP2 came out?

 

Pretty sure it's always been that way. If you precalc the IR and have LC as secondary you don't need to load the LC for the final animation, it will be inside the IR calc.

[gfa2]

Brian seems to favor IR+LC while Christopher goes with IR+QMC. Brian has the extra pass for the LC and Christopher teaches you to "merge" separate IR maps. I also favor Brian's color mapping (Reinhard) over Chris's (Exponential).

 

As far as I know, Brian does mostly architectural stuff, Chris does Hollywood stuff and TV commercials so they are kinda coming from different places and use different techniques. I'd say Chris does mostly all animations and likes the Brute force stuff because of moving object in the animations, Brian probably does more stills (correct me if I'm wrong guys ) Now you can use IR with the new IR animation and interpretive frames settings for moving objects in an animation. That wasn't available a year ago. Some of the stuff that Chris has in his DVD's is a little outdated as far as Vray goes because the program has changed quite a bit in the last few years. Like the Reinhard color mapping wasn't in the program when Chris did his exterior DVD. They are still quite excellent though.

[Claudio Branch]

 

So what kind of render times are you looking at? What is the image resolution?

 

 

I am seeing times between 30-60 minutes depending on where the camera is relative to the structure. The frames are 720x486.

 

All of my settings are reasonable production values compliments of Brian Smith. Except for the 40 on glossy sub-d's and 25 (default 10) on the Interpolation Samples in the LC rollout. I discovered that going up to 25 or even 50 on that value will really blend out any splotchy noise in th shadows (animation or still)

 

Perhaps I will go back down to 30 and raise the Interpolation. I was getting times that cut these in half, but still a bit of flicker in those highlights.

 

In the end, it's all about what you can live with I guess.

 

Settings! Settings! Settings!

[gfa2]

In the end, it's all about what you can live with I guess.

 

Settings! Settings! Settings!

 

Some would say 60 minutes is fine, personally anything over 30 minutes makes me feel like I need to tweak the settings, especially at DV resolution. 60 minutes or more for HD resolution is probably fine. Some of the Pixar stuff goes for mega, mega hours per frame. . Yeah, it's all about what you can live with.

[Claudio Branch]

Some of the stuff that Chris has in his DVD's is a little outdated as far as Vray goes because the program has changed quite a bit in the last few years. Like the Reinhard color mapping wasn't in the program when Chris did his exterior DVD. They are still quite excellent though.

 

Both of the DVD's Chris did receive strong reviews, so I knew I could learn alot from them even if they are somewhat dated. He has a great GI workflow and that was quite useful to emulate. Brians' material is excellent and probably more current.

 

I'm trying to find my own way, so I'm not stuck just memorizing settings. Both of these guys are great to learn from...

[Claudio Branch]

Some would say 60 minutes is fine, personally anything over 30 minutes makes me feel like I need to tweak the settings, especially at DV resolution. 60 minutes or more for HD resolution is probably fine.

 

I agree with your reasoning for DV media.

 

I have a 15 node farm and the machines are fast. I told myself when I decided to do GI animations that I would shoot for 30-45 minutes per frame.

 

At some point it's just diminishing returns though. I am chasing a "settings ghost"...

 

I am starting to change my whole philosophy now anyways. Perhaps a few seconds of very high quality GI work is more desirable than a bulk of good quality Scanline.

 

Totally subjective as well...