next monitor--what type?

[Ernest Burden III]

For my final color work I cling to a good old Sony CRT. I have some really good LCDs but I do not trust them for subtleties of color and shading. Fine.

 

Except this CRT recently had a sort of seizure, a bizarre few minutes of flashing colors, odd noises and dropping out of one of the primary colors--odd for a single-gun system. It's feeling much better now, thank you, but I suspect it's days are numbered. It's actually not that old, maybe four years. Sonys usually last a decade or more. Looking at the usual websites for hardware I see only a few CRTs, no Sonys.

 

Is it time to go to the next display technology? If not LCD, then what? Is OLED ready for serious work yet? Plasmas are better on color, but can suffer burn-in so aren't recommended for computer monitors.

 

Thoughts?

[AJLynn]

Exactly how serious do you want to get?

[Lester_Masterson]

Just got a Samsung 245B 24" ($420 CDN). Once the Natural Color and MagicTune software were installed, I am simply stunned by the results.

 

I have been using an NEC 19" CRT for color matching, but now...I may just have found a reason to retire it.

 

Another great choice would be the Viewsonic VI-VP2250WB 22" ($425 CDN). Not near the resolution as the samsung (1920x1200 vs 1680x1050), but it does feature a 106% NTSC color gamut.

 

Happy shopping

[jackb602]

A good friend of mine who is a professional photographer recently picked up this monitor and loves it:

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11034

 

It's his main monitor for editing and color correcting his photos for print. I haven't read all the technical details, but it's supposed to be a big step forward in color accuracy for its price (around $1000). I was very impressed by it when I checked it out a couple of weeks ago.

 

Jack

 

EDIT: My friend bought the version that includes the color calibrator. He said it was much easier than using a 3rd party calibrator.

[shaneis]

It seems Sony has discontinued their CRT's. Maybe try for a Phillips? I'm from the same school of thought as you regarding CRT's for colour work. If you can't find a nice CRT or simply want 2 sq.ft of your desk back, EIZO is the next best thing...though about 5-10x more expensive. Will last you near 10 years though, just like your Sony.

[afterglow]

I have 3 trinitrons, all on their way out too.. one of them had the same prob as yours, ie, one of the primary colours dropping out, and the other two have developed a shaky picture.

 

I've just ordered one of these.. comparable to the Eizo's but a lot more budget friendly;

 

http://www.necvisualsystems.com/Products/Product/?product=4af7b335-9302-4429-8d73-74c35a363b57

[Ernest Burden III]

Here's the question I have after looking at the NEC with all the special color and fidelity stuff for several thousand dollars--is that going to be any better than the color, brightness and contrast of a $500 Sony CRT? Is it even going to be as good? My sister loves Barco monitors, which are high-cost CRTs (maybe they do LCDs now, I will check) that promise better results than a regular CRT monitor.

 

I'm not against paying more for a monitor if that's what it takes to get the quality I need, but don't want to ditch CRTs unless I have no choice. LCDs are better in a number of ways, but not the one that counts when doing final work on renderings and animations.

 

OLEDs?

[AJLynn]

So why not just get a CRT? They've got a good 21" NEC on Newegg for $300.

[Scott Erstad]

Get a nice CRT for your primary, a Dell LCD ultrasharp for your secondary, and this...

http://global.wacom.com/lp/20WSX.html?CMP=EMC-D3B688542000

 

you be rockin then!

[Ernest Burden III]

So why not just get a CRT? They've got a good 21" NEC on Newegg for $300.

 

When I started with PCs I used NEC monitors, but they never lived very long. Sonys usually do, my current one may not. But it looks like the only way I'll get another one is if I find some 'new old stock'.

 

The point of the thread is that I'm wondering if there are other types of monitors that are good enough now. Apple seems to think LCD is fine. I'm not sure I agree. Yet.

[Sawyer]

A few months ago I updated my 8 yr old crt and I see my images differently. Images I was happy with I have gone back and tweaked. This drives me nuts because then I wonder what my clients were seeing. Anyway I have an LG and I like it. I had a sony I think for a few days but it gave me a headache so I sent it back.

 

Overall I don't like lcds as much. My plasma tv I love:)

[Richard McCarthy]

The color accuracy of LCD monitor depends on the technology that goes into the PANEL. MAJORITY of the LCD monitors that are sub $500 are of "TN" type, which is the one that gave LCD a bad name in color due to dithering involved. TN panels are usually very fast, currently TN panels are usually at 2ms response time.

 

The more expensive LCD panels are of IPS or PVA/MVA type. (Now they are usually called S-IPS (Super IPS) or S-PVA. They can display true color as compare to TN type panel but usually suffer from response time. Current PVA/IPS panel have typical response time of 6ms. So unless you plan to play a lot of FPS shooters, where frame rate is king, get PVA or IPS.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php

 

Now, down to recommendation, currently, Samsung produce the majority of PVA type panel, while NEC are mostly IPS type panel.

 

I would recommend Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP 24" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor , since it is true PVA panel. The panel is actually made by Samsung, but bewares when you buy Samsung because they don't always produce PVA panel but a mix of TN and PVA.

 

Another great site to read REAL professional reviews on panels is :

 

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk

 

They go into great details on color space and color correction for each of LCD panels they review.

 

For example :

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_2408wfp.htm

 

Happy hunting!

Edited May 30, 2008 by Richard McCarthy

[shaneis]

A new HP series of printers released recently is a definite alternative to the EIZO range...and cheaper!

 

http://www.justechn.com/2008/06/10/hp-dreamcolor-lp2480zx-lcd-display

[Ky Lane]

Im running 2xLG 22" Flatron Wide's... theyre just gorgeous and affordable.

[Mario Pende]

http://www.prad.de

[Richard McCarthy]

HP just released a new a new 30-bit Colour LCD monitor that offers ONE BILLION COLOURS!

 

 

 

HP's 'colour-critical' LCD

 

Thursday 12 June 2008, 1:59 PM

Posted by Charles McLellan

 

One of the key products introduced at HP's 'Connecting Your World' event in Berlin earlier this week was the 24in. DreamColor LP2480zx, a 30-bit (10 bits per primary colour channel) LED-backlit monitor featuring HP's DreamColor Engine technology (first seen in a number of printers last year).

 

HP's 24in. DreamColor 2480zx sells for 2,299 euros and is shipping now.

 

The DreamColor brand is designed for graphics professionals, who require accurate and consistent colour across a range of devices. HP has a close relationship with DreamWorks Animation, which clearly has a pressing need to ensure that the artistry of its animators — most recently seen in Kung Fu Panda (premiered at Cannes and released in the UK on 4 July) — is reproduced faithfully through the production chain, from graphics workstation to movie theatre or living room. According to HP, technical types at DreamWorks had been reduced to scouring eBay for old high-end CRT monitors, such was the expense of existing 'colour-critical' LCDs.

 

The Dreamcolour 2480zx offers blacker blacks, programmable white and a range of preset colour spaces: an optional calibration kit (colorimeter and software) is also available.

 

With its billion-colour gamut, CRT-class black, programmable white and six factory-calibrated colour spaces plus one user-programmable space, the 2,299-euro DreamColor LP2480zx does the job for about a quarter the price of previous solutions, according to HP.

 

http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10008426o-2000331760b,00.htm

 

 

 

 

HP DreamColor LP2480zx LCD display

 

Date: June 10th, 2008

Author: Ryan McLaughlin

Manufacturer: HP

Categories: Displays, Reviews

Tags: display, DreamColor, HP, LCD, LP2480zx

 

Ever since LCD displays came out, professionals in the Video and photographic industries have not readily adopted them because they were not very good at displaying true colors. Over the years they have gotten better, but not until today did they have something to get really excited about. Today HP announced their new Dreamcolor LP2480zx LCD display.

Features

 

* 30-bit and one billion colors

* 6 Built-in industry standard color spaces.

* HP DreamColor Engine

* DisplayPort 1.1, HDMI 1.3, (2) DVI-I, analog, component, S-video, and composite inputs

* HDCP support for protected content

 

“The HP DreamColor LP2480xz is the first display to be introduced under the HP DreamColor Technology initiative, a two-year technology collaboration between HP and DreamWorks Animation. The initiative aims to deliver accurate color that remains consistent from application to application, device to device and medium to medium.”

Features

 

The display has 30-bit color accuracy (10-bits per color channel) and can display over 1 billion colors. This is a huge step forward from the current LCD displays which are only have 24-bit color accuracy and can only display 16.7 million colors. The native resolution for the DreamColor LP2480xz is 1920 x 1200 pixels.

 

Having industry standard color spaces built into the monitor means that no matter what content you are working with you can quickly and easily switch to the best color space. The color spaces that are available are NTSC, SMPTE, sRGB, Rec. 709, Adobe RGB and DCI.

 

The ability to switch color spaces is what gives the DreamColor LP2480xz the ability to show so many colors. As you can see from the charts below a typical LCD monitor covers very little of the colors that are visible to the human eye, but by using different color spaces the DreamColor LP2480xz can show much more of those colors. Even with all the color spaces there is still quite a bit of the visible color spectrum that is not visible in this display.

lcd_colors.jpg

Colorspace colors

 

The DreamColor engine and the RGB LED backlight is what makes all the colors possible. The RGB LED backlight uses HP Tri-color LED Backlight and gives you a greater amount of control over the the white point and luminance. With the use of the backlight you can make changes to the white point with no loss in the dynamic range. The DreamColor engine provides accurate color management and color space remapping

 

The DreamColor LP2480zx DisplayPort 1.1, HDMI 1.3, (2) DVI-I, analog, component, S-video, and composite inputs.

Inputs 1

Inputs 3

Inputs 4

Design

 

When you first see this LCD you are not going to think that it is very special. It looks very similar to any other display you would find on a store shelf. It is a 24″ widescreen with dimensions of 16.7 to 20.67 x 22.24 x 10″ and a weight of 27.5 lb. It is almost entirely black except for the base of the stand which is silver. When asked why they choose 24″ as the size, HP responded by saying that it strikes a good balance because if it were any bigger you would either have to move your head a lot to see everything, or you would have to push it so far back on your desk that the text would be too small to read.

 

On the front there are six buttons. These buttons include the power button and all the controls for the color spaces and other menus. Because a lot of professionals like to use their displays in the dark, these buttons light up so you can easily use them when all the lights are off. Using the OSD you have control over the Color Space, Brightness, Color Temp, Reset to Factory Cal., Reset to Last, Black Level, Overdrive, Custom Scaling, Crop (L-C-R), PIP Control, Auto Adjust, H Position, V Position, Clock, Clock Phase,

Hue, Saturation, and Language. These settings can also be adjusted via the USB interface using color calibration software.

Buttons

OSD

 

Underneath is where you are going to find all the inputs. Included are a DisplayPort 1.1, DVI-I (2), analog, component, S-video, and composite inputs. There is also another USB port down here. This one is used to provide the connection to the computer and power the other 4 USB ports.

 

On the right side of the display there are four USB ports. All the USB ports are USB 2.0

Side

 

The base is fairly basic and provides the usual adjustments. It can tilt, swivel, pivot and change height. Here are the ranges for each adjustment: Tilt range: -5 to +35 degrees; Swivel range: 45 to +45 degrees; Height adjustable: 3.94″ range; Pivot rotation: 90 degrees.

Front low

Front high

Front angle

Performance

 

Like I said before, looking at the display when it is turned off is not going to reveal anything special. In fact, you may dismiss it as being an over priced consumer LCD. You actually need to turn it on to see why it really shines. When you do turn it on you are going to be surprised, it also helps to have another LCD to compare it to.

 

In the pictures below you can see the monitor being used in several different situations. The first picture is of the DreamColor LP2480zx being used with Digital Photography. Notice how close the monitor displays the true color of the objects and the color chart. The reason there is a slight difference is because the monitor is set to full color, so what you see here is actually the worst it will get. The next picture shows it being used for video where the monitor is serving as a HD-SDI broadcast monitor.

Photography

Video

 

Next, I have a few pictures with the monitor next to an Apple Cinema display. The two monitors are attached to an Apple Mac Pro workstation with a Y splitter for the video. This ensures they are both receiving the same video signal. You can clearly see the difference in the color. When showing Black and White pictures the Apple display looks like it is blue when compared to the Dreamcolor LP2480zx. Even when showing color, the Apple display is more saturated and the colors are not true to life.

Apple Cinema compare 1

Apple Cinema compare 3

Apple Cinema compare 4

Apple Cinema compare 5

 

The next picture shows the DreamColor LP2480zx displaying dark pictures. With a contrast ratio of 1000:1 this monitor does a really great job, even when you are dealing with dark subjects. I would love to try out this monitor with Doom, I might actually be able to tell the monsters apart from the dark.

 

I am very impressed by the color quality and features in the DreamColor LP2480zx. It clearly out performed other monitors. I Think we can all agree that this is a huge step forward for LCD technology.

Warranty and Support

 

The DreamColor LP2480zx comes with a decent warranty and service plan. It is three years parts, labor, and on-site service. 24-hour, 90-day, toll-free technical support. Replacement options may include second business day on-site service, or next business day direct replacement, at HP’s sole discretion. With direct replacement, HP will ship a replacement display product directly to you. Using the prepaid shipping labels provided, return your failed display to HP in the same packaging as the replacement. Obviously, Certain restrictions and exclusions apply. You should always see your product warranty or contact HP Customer Support for specific details.

Conclusion

 

As I mentioned above the Dreamcolor initiative, also includes printers. When you pair up the DreamColor LP2480zx with a DreamColor printer you will have a complete publishing system where you can go from raw source to printed material and get the results you want every time. No more having to print out multiple copies of something just so you can tweak the colors. This alone will save publishing companies a lot of time and money.

 

I can highly recommend the DreamColor LP2480zx for any professional who works with video or photos. In fact, I would go so far as to say this is a necessity. At $3499 the price is too high for consumers, but professionals will appreciate the price because they know that other displays like this one cost between $15,000 and $25,000. As time goes by, the prices will come down and then we can all have one. I cannot wait to get one of these for myself. I am so impressed with the Dreamcolor LP2480ZX that I am going to give it my Editors Choice Award. As always compare prices before purchasing.

 

http://www.justechn.com/2008/06/10/hp-dreamcolor-lp2480zx-lcd-display

 

 

Official specs here :

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648397.html

 

 

I guess if all these claims are true, this is it, this is the winner!

Edited June 14, 2008 by Richard McCarthy